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Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by jzl on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @04:15PM (#15186764)
TL;DR: Slightly interesting but narrowly focused article with clickbait-ish headline. It charts the growth of Stack Overflow python question views in the last five years. While this is an interesting statistic there is no additional analysis that it correlates to python's usage growth. And no hypothesis is given for the growth in question views, although they tease a future post about that. It would have been far more interesting if they correlated their stats to lines of code in github or something along those lines.

To me, if anything I'm curious why python was so low percentage-wise in question views only five years ago. Anecdotally it doesn't seem to me that python usage in "industry" has grown that dramatically in the last five years, but there could be other factors involved such as education. Or my biased gut instinct could be completely off.

(Note: been a python user for 20+ years.)

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by kronos29296 on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @04:40PM (#15186955)
I think even though Python in the industry like in web isn't growing as much as say Node, in other places like Data Science and Intro to programming in Unis and Schools Python is growing very fast.

The article is not narrow minded but has a narrow focus and only analyses concrete data from a single source. It may be globally accurate but indicates a rising trend in people being interested in python. While Python usage cannot be directly correlatd to SO, we can infer that languages that have more questions have more people using or learning it generally. In the same way languages with a small community of users don't always prefer SO but something more personal like Mailing lists or IRC (eg. J language).

It should be safe to conclude that due to Data Science being the new buzz word and python at the forefront of it all, atleast python is getting a lot of attention even if it doesn't translate directly to more users right away.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by jzl on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @05:18PM (#15187205)
I just edited my comment to say narrowly focused rather than narrow-minded. That is definitely what I meant to convey but chose the wrong words, thanks for pointing it out.
Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by Alex3917 on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @04:20PM (#15186808)
> To me, if anything I'm curious why python was so low percentage-wise in question views only five years ago.

The majority of the top CS colleges switched to teaching using Python within the last five years. This provides a big reason for companies to use Python as well, since it drives down the cost of hiring.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by sametmax on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @04:24PM (#15186842)
Same in France, it's the default language now.

It also mean more questions in SO by a lot of lost students.

And it means later, more Python devs on the market.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by BeetleB on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @08:42PM (#15188319)
As others have pointed out, more people coming out of school know it.

When I started my job, the company (fairly large one) was mostly Perl. Perl was the big language of a past generation, so when those engineers were hired, Perl was king. I was told by at least two people that having Python on my resume is not a boost for engineering companies (not counting software), as most managers had never heard of it.

Not too many years later, a lot of new work in the company is being done in Python. Why? Because that's what the newer employees know and prefer.

I think in the software world, Python was big a long time ago (even in the days I joined). But non-software companies were stuck with Tcl and Perl for much longer. Now that they're shifting, you will see some of that growth.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by coldtea on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @04:48PM (#15187009)
>While this is an interesting statistic there is no additional analysis that it correlates to python's usage growth.

You believe that Python would ever generate more questions over time on SO without getting more users/usage?

I guess the mysterious dumbing down of a stable user base is an alternative explanation.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by alcalde on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @07:52PM (#15188077)
I get this same thing from the Delphi users forum, where the diehards strain to convince themselves that Delphi has "three million users" and "is about as popular as Python". They insist that there's no reason Stack Overflow questions should be correlated with real-world usage. One suggested, seriously, that perhaps Delphi is just so easy to use that users don't need to ask questions. This excuse has been adopted to explain a lack of commercially published books ("maybe everything to say about Delphi has already been said") and there was even an attempt to explain away job posting data. In that case it was theorized that Delphi jobs are filled as soon as they're posted while Java jobs go unfilled for months so when you see thousands of Java jobs on Dice but no Delphi jobs that actually means there's a huge Delphi jobs market and no one's actually using Java. :-(

Never underestimate how far users of "sunset technologies" will go to convince themselves that their skill set is outdated. Heck, Embarcadero's C++ product manager insists that "customers tell him" that Delphi (Pascal!) is "five times more productive than Python" and he actually believes this too. The Delphi product manager, meanwhile, told me he sincerely believes that Delphi has had more of an impact on the business world than Python ever has. Meanwhile, the former VP of Developer Relations once polled the first 500 people to upgrade to their newest release of Delphi, crunched the data, and concluded that users really love Delphi (of course, the many who felt the upgrade was light on features and high on price and chose not to upgrade weren't reflected in the data).

It makes me want to pull my hair out.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by mark-r on Thursday September 07, 2017 @12:08AM (#15189088)
Sounds like cognitive dissonance. I learned a lot about it by reading the Dilbert blog over the last couple of years. Here's an earlier example: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/102627908761/job-satisfaction
Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by jzl on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @05:30PM (#15187277)
Did you actually read the article? Of course generating more questions is likely indicative of more usage. But the graph shows it from being in last place (of the listed languages) in 2012 with ~4% of the question views to being first place right now over all other languages with ~10% of question views. Python has grown a lot over the past 5 and especially 10 years in wide usage but I've seen no other evidence that the chart in the article should be believed to have a direct correlation with usage. There are many possible explanations of a more indirect correlation that could be skewing the numbers in unexpected ways but none are discussed in the article.

I'm the biggest python fan you'll meet (ok I'm sure that's not strictly true) but I followed the headline hoping to see more concrete data to support the claim of "Incredible Growth" and came away disappointed.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by coldtea on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @07:00PM (#15187833)
>Did you actually read the article?

I did, but I also read the comment: "While this is an interesting statistic there is no additional analysis that it correlates to python's usage growth" -- which is what I responded to.

>There are many possible explanations of a more indirect correlation that could be skewing the numbers in unexpected ways but none are discussed in the article.

Like what though? Aside from some kind of bias on SO I can't think of any alternative explanation that actual growth.

Now, what that growth was based on, that can have many explanations, sure.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by jzl on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @08:20PM (#15188218)
I completely agree that there is growth but the question is how much. To me it feels like the 2012 python statistic is unexpectedly small. It's not like python wasn't very popular in 2012.

To put it another way: do you believe that the first graph in the article directly represents programming language usage percentiles, in the field, over five years? I'm guessing not. I certainly don't.

Here is a graph of programming language popularity on github from 2012-2014:

https://www.loggly.com/blog/the-most-popular-programming-lan...

While this metric is arguably just as fuzzy as any other, the lines in the this graph definitely seem to agree with my gut feeling for language percentiles during that period. I'm not trying to say that my "gut feeling" has any significance. I'm just re-emphasizing that the article didn't give me any useful insight into the significance or meaning of the Stack Overflow statistics. I couldn't find an equivalent chart for the years since 2014 but would love to see one. Either way, it's not like python was ever far behind. It was basically in third place in both the beginning and end of that time period. But in the beginning of the SO chart it's in sixth place. And the SO chart doesn't even include ruby, which is ahead of python in 2012 in the loggly chart. I guess people really don't go to SO for ruby questions? It's certainly possible that the quality of answers on SO for different languages has a lot of variance, which is one possible explanation for the difference. Maybe python questions in 2012 on SO weren't that good. In my experience I'm far more likely to check the python docs before I go looking on SO. Maybe there were changes in google rankings for certain things. Maybe there were certain types of articles that took up the lion's share of growth, like "how to port to python 3", which could have brought existing python devs back into heavy view rotation. Python has also gotten a lot more complicated with things like asyncio, etc., which could again draw more article views but not be directly related to usage growth.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by cutler on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @11:05PM (#15188890)
Search Indeed.co.uk by job title. Python has seen a big increase in adoption here in the UK in recent years.
Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by AlexMax on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @06:03PM (#15187496)
> Anecdotally it doesn't seem to me that python usage in "industry" has grown that dramatically in the last five years, but there could be other factors involved such as education. Or my biased gut instinct could be completely off.

I actually was looking at these numbers just a few days ago, trying to decide on what language to embed in something I'm working on (CPython, Duktape Javascript or Lua), and came to the same confused realization - the number of Python questions on Stack Overflow had increased significantly over the last few years, but I couldn't quite correlate why. I put in a bunch of different related tags, but none of them could account for such a large jump.

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/trends?tags=python%2Cdjan...

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by falmak on Thursday September 07, 2017 @02:58AM (#15189652)
trying to decide on what language to embed in something I'm working on (CPython, Duktape Javascript or Lua)

I'm trying to make a similar decision at the moment - have you chosen which of these languages to use? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of each.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by myth_drannon on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @10:37PM (#15188775)
ML/AI hype started in 2011-2012.
Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by d0mine on Friday September 15, 2017 @12:18PM (#15258334)
They address this point in an earlier post on Flash (Flash is Dead). See near "Conclusion: do questions really represent the health of a technology?" https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/08/01/flash-dead-technologie...
Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by doozy on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @04:51PM (#15187032)
Fellow 20+ years Python user here.

Python adoption outside first world countries have always lagged considerably behind. A common pattern among technologies.

I suspect a lot of that growth is the rest of the world catching up.

Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by jzl on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @05:35PM (#15187322)
To the article's credit it actually differentiates between first world ("high income") countries and the rest of the world. The growth has been even more in high income countries so that explanation doesn't work for the data in the article.
Re:The Incredible Growth of Python by doozy on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @05:58PM (#15187460)
Yes, I'm aware of that. I wasn't talking specifically about the data in the article but about Python's growth in general. I don't believe the popularity of a tag in a forum is a reliable indicator of the growth of a language, it may simply be this forum becoming more popular among Python users.

Python's rising popularity among the scientific computing community is simply not enough to support the idea of a dramatic increase in Python adoption. As a long-time user of the language I share your appreciation Python usage in the industry has not dramatically increased in the past few years.

On the other hand, there's plenty of evidence suggesting Python is becoming increasingly popular outside high income countries.