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Re:Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet... by pjc50 on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @11:17AM (#15184329)
> everyone seems to agree that Facebook et. al's censorship of objectionable content is great

Hardly. Especially on the left. Including such issues as the ban on breastfeeding photos, ban on trans people using their names, and widespread failure to ban hate speech.

(I'm sure I've seen one case of someone recieving a pile of death threats, reporting them, getting told they were "not offensive", then reposting them as an image to say what sort of garbage facebook tolerates .. and then getting that post deleted by facebook. But not any of the original abuse.)

Re:Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet... by ravenstine on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @01:05PM (#15185237)
Just because they advocate freedom to express those ideas does not mean they advocate freedom of speech as a whole. Talking about anything not in the liberal vogue right now opens one up to a world of hurt that wasn't as prevalent even 10 years ago. Bring up being against draconian gun control and, depending on where you live and how large your social circle is, you might get a reputation for being a bunch of things you're not. I'm often seen as a conservative for bringing up the fact that violent crime in America is down, or challenging misconceptions about GMOs or criticizing Bill Nye the Science Guy(no, I'm not kidding), or even so much as questioning the accuracy of the gender pay gap statistic. Yet I have nothing in common with the kind of "conservatives" people are talking about. In fact I'd argue that almost all of my actual positions are far more liberal and progressive than that of most liberals.

The problem is that free speech of any value has to be facilitated by the likes of Facebook and other companies. If companies control who gets banned for saying something, and their goal is largely profit-driven, and the consensus is to make communication habitable for the most consumers(as opposed to actual expression of ideas beyond vapid Instagram photos), we are essentially screwed. The left is at an advantage because they have the facade of being the ones who fight for social injustice and those who are "historically oppressed", which are things that most people, including many conservatives, can't really argue against on face value; when they are handed the keys to media power, they behave just as conservative religious fundamentalists would, just with their own particular set of ideas that are not always congruent.

That is why I find the public's support of censorship, and the socially-acceptable level of vexation over "offensive" ideas, to be very disturbing. I find that I cannot even trust a large number of people who I know, and I think many people have discovered the same thing, which is why platforms like Facebook have turned into digital ghettos.

Re:Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet... by pjc50 on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @01:57PM (#15185701)
> world of hurt that wasn't as prevalent even 10 years ago

Well this sounds unfortunate ...

> might get a reputation for being a bunch of things you're not

.. but that's just other people's free speech?

> I'm often seen as a conservative for bringing up the fact that violent crime in America is down

True, and also free speech. I'm slightly surprised this labels you as a conservative.

I'm not really seeing the "world of hurt", just a world of other people's free speech?

Re:Leaked document: EU Presidency calls for massive internet... by BearGoesChirp on Wednesday September 06, 2017 @02:57PM (#15186188)
>.. but that's just other people's free speech?

No. That saying "Hey, I want to own my own semi auto rifle." leads to someone thinking you are alt-right has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Their expressing their view of you being alt-right does, but the logical jump itself does not.

Now, people are free to think what ever they want. Not exactly given in a single Amendment, but people would agree holding some belief is a freedom. But we can still say that some beliefs being wide spread is a bad thing.

>True, and also free speech.

Their spreading their view of grandparent as being conservative is free speech. Their actually having this view is not related to free speech at all.

Take a comparison, imagine extremely racist views became extremely widespread and people kept bringing them up. Even though this is free speech, we still put limits on it. For example, the notion of creating a hostile work environment and the penalties that can bring.