China's Central Bank Bans ICOs

Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by Nursie on Monday September 04, 2017 @01:35PM (#15169650)

I think we'll begin to find out how regulation-resistant it is over the next few years...

And no, we don't relate on that, and we disagree that the effect is limited to the individual (see "the Great Depression, causes of") or that the individual should have to bear all risk of their actions at all times. Fundamentally I suspect we disagree on what sort of society we want to live in.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by CryptoPunk on Monday September 04, 2017 @01:41PM (#15169693)

It may be regulation resistant or it may prove to not be. But the point is people go into it with the expectation that it is designed to try to achieve this property, and they're free to avoid any perceived risks of a regulation resistant industry by remaining in the traditional financial market. This greatly reduces the moral justification of imposing regulations on this space.

We also disagree on the economic causes of events like the Great Depression.

Also I did mention we could bring back an option to voluntarily cede one's own freedom, for those that don't want to bear the responsibility of living with the consequences of their own bad decisions, so I don't think our disagreement is exactly how you've characterised it. It's more like we disagree on whether we should prevent people from having the option to live freely.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by Nursie on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:16PM (#15169895)

I think we also disagree on what "freely" might mean.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by CryptoPunk on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:19PM (#15169905)

Make decisions for your own life? I would hope we could at least agree on the definition of common words and this wouldn't become a definition wack-a-mole.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by Nursie on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:24PM (#15169944)

I think that's both naive and wishful thinking. Like a BSD vs GPL argument, one can have many definitions of what constitutes freedom.

Is BSD more free because it places no restrictions, or is the GPL more free because it guarantees freedom to those further on in the chain?

I'm not going to attempt an answer because it's the stuff of decades of internet flamewars. Similarly I don't think that libertarian freedoms are necessarily the only definitions, particularly as they seem to enshrine ownership of land and property as absolute, which come at a cost to the freedoms of others to make use of land or possessions. (I'm not looking for a debate on why that may or may not be right or wrong, simply to establish that what makes someone or something the most free is not 100% clear cut)

So no, we can't really agree on a definition of free or freely.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by CryptoPunk on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:30PM (#15169983)

I think if you ask 10 people on the street which definition of freedom is correct, all 10 of them would agree with mine. But in any case, you know what I mean by 'freedom'. I've given enough context to make that clear. My conception of freedom, by any other name, would still be my conception of freedom. What word you want to assign to is immaterial to the essence of my point.

I don't feel this discussion can proceed constructively anymore.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by Nursie on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:33PM (#15170009)

Maybe, maybe not. You certainly frame your definition as if you believe it to be the only one. I believe that libertarians often frame their arguments as concerning freedom, as we in the west tend to believe freedom is unequivocally the best thing. It's the hidden assumptions and definitions about freedom as defined in libertarian thought which I find interesting, and biased.

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by CryptoPunk on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:41PM (#15170072)

   free·dom
   ˈfrēdəm/
   noun
   the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.
   "we do have some freedom of choice"

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Re:China's Central Bank Bans ICOs by Nursie on Monday September 04, 2017 @02:49PM (#15170127)

Sure, now looking at property rights where it comes to land, if I want to set up house in your wheat field, and you stop me, are you not impinging on my freedom?

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