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A comment on With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel requirements. Parent comment

Re:With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel req... by kevingadd on Monday September 04, 2017 @10:55AM (#15168618)
My experiences are similar. The more time passes the harder (???) it gets to work with Linux. I had to bump my Linode machines forward to avoid getting left behind by the Ubuntu upgrade train and the transition to systemd broke all my services and made everything harder to debug. Not pleasant.

I used to operate under the assumption that I could sit down and use Linux if I needed to - and I started a job that required just that, and it was fine. I'm increasingly less certain of that, because things seem to change rapidly and it's very hard to find documentation that is clear and up-to-date. It's already hard enough to figure out how to do things like add a shortcut to Ubuntu's app launcher.

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Re:With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel req... by majewsky on Monday September 04, 2017 @01:43PM (#15169706)
> made everything harder to debug

It's not harder, it's just different. As a counterpoint, I never figured out how sysvinit works and got by with guesswork and Stack Overflow answers. And I hated how logs were scattered all over the place. Nowadays you have systemctl(1) and journalctl(1) which are exceptionally well-documented in their manpages, and now services and logs work the same all the time across all distros.

(Not going to argue about journald's weird binary log format though. I don't get that. But at least it doesn't get in the way for me.)

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Re:With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel req... by kevingadd on Monday September 04, 2017 @03:04PM (#15170215)
I believe you, but design decisions like 'the systemd utilities for controlling services exit silently with no output even when they fail to start a service' definitely make it hard to learn the new systems.
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Re:With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel req... by majewsky on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @06:30AM (#15173882)
Eh, what? I've seen them fail non-silently. What you're thinking of is probably when a service comes up fine, but then fails a few seconds after it has started up.
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Re:With Android Oreo, Google is introducing Linux kernel req... by walterbell on Monday September 04, 2017 @11:06AM (#15168720)
Debian Wheezy (systemd-free) is still receiving security updates. Devuan provides systemd-free Debian.
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