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Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by drizzzler on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:42PM (#15153706)
It's funny how thick HNers are about Bitcoin. I believe it's evidence of the sort of passive conservatism of the tech community. Bitcoin is some utopian shit, the decentralized technology dream that has a ton of traction, yet many of you just can't seem to get behind it. Is it because YC is an ultra capitalistic investment fund and Bitcoin is just too anarchist for its fanboys?

For all the people out there saying, "I cant find a use case", my question to you is, have you ever used it?!

If you have, did you notice that there wasn't a middleman taking a cut when you sent the money? I mean, do you have any fucking idea how much money businesses pay to the credit card companies?

Get on board guys.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by GhostVII on Friday September 01, 2017 @11:19PM (#15154040)
I just don't see what benefits Bitcoin gives to me over a regular bank.

First of all because it is decentralised, it is much less scalable than the current system, so I don't think it is going to be able to replace regular banking anytime soon (although I don't know a tonne about the scalability issues).

Also I like to have a centralised system, because if my bitcoin gets stolen/I screw up and lose it, it is gone forever. If my money gets stolen somehow, I call up the bank and they reverse the charges. Having a central authority is also pretty nice because they also give me lots of other benefits like credit card rewards, making it really easy to move my money around into different savings accounts or investments, etc. And regular currencies are also backed by the government, so are incredibly stable, unlike Bitcoin which changes values very quickly.

Bitcoin is also deflationary, which is a bad trait for a currency to have, as it discourages investment, and encourages people to hoard money instead of spending it.

I'm sure there are use cases for Bitcoin, but I don't think it is "some utopian shit", since the current system works super well for most people.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by Shorel on Saturday September 02, 2017 @10:13AM (#15156061)
Current system works well for most people in a handful of well developed countries. Bitcoin is a global phenomenon.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by rizalp on Saturday September 02, 2017 @07:40PM (#15158857)
I'm very much agree to this, especially the deflationary part. Current Bitcoin pricing seems to favor the early `investors`, and fluctuate too much. That is not acceptable for use as money, which must store a stable value for a long time...
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by urza on Thursday September 07, 2017 @07:32AM (#15190803)
US Dollar lost 95% of it's purchasing power over the last century, so much for "must store a stable value for a long time".

The wealth distribution of dollar is based on how many more people your grandfather killed than my grandfather. I don't have any problem with currency where initial distribution rewards people who took investment risks because they saw potential in innovative new technology.

And volatility - volatility in bitcoin is actually smaller every year, and this trend will continue. And btw volatility is natural and healthy. It's when something is not moving that you should be worried.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by forthefuture on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:58PM (#15153769)
The best case scenario for Bitcoin is reaching a consistent price for the rest of its lifetime. That scenario means there's no reason to "invest" in it because ideally it would never change in value.

Only people trying to cash out need people buying in. If you were really invested in the long term you'd rather people not buy in so you can buy more at a lower price.

Bitcoin also has fees. The only reason the fees are lower than credit cards are because people in China can afford to burn electricity at a loss just to turn their Chinese money into anything else.

You still have to pay taxes on the capital gains. And you can't pay taxes in Bitcoin.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by tradersam on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:34PM (#15153882)
I don't agree.

The best case scenario for bitcoin is it becoming the de facto monetary standard, meaning there would be no reason to buy or cash out, as everything would be priced in bitcoin.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by rizalp on Saturday September 02, 2017 @07:46PM (#15158878)
I don't agree with you

Bitcoin will never replace current fiat money as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by tradersam on Sunday September 03, 2017 @01:56PM (#15162796)
> as it is inherently flawed: price fluctuate too much, and favor early owner of it.

These aren't flaws, welcome to economics, man. Once bitcoin gains enough things will be priced in BTC, so fluctuation won't be an issue.

Deflationary economics benefit the savers, while inflationary economics benefit the spenders. Just because bitcoin's economic model isn't something you're used to or like doesn't mean it is 'inherently flawed'.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by rizalp on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @12:09AM (#15172455)
It is flawed because the pool of currency is limited. What happen when our economy grows fast, but then there's not enough BTC to support it? Price will decrease and benefit the savers, sure. But then many people will prefer to save instead of spending, which will not fuel the economy
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by urza on Thursday September 07, 2017 @07:15AM (#15190710)
"which will not fuel the economy"

So you mean, like, people will not waste nature's resources for things they don't really need? Oh, what a tragedy!

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by leereeves on Friday September 01, 2017 @11:47PM (#15154129)
And that will never happen for the reason just stated: you can't pay taxes in Bitcoin.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by aussieguy1234 on Saturday September 02, 2017 @01:36AM (#15154494)
At the moment. Surely govts will accept cryptocurrency for paying taxes at some point.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by wakeywakeywakey on Friday September 01, 2017 @11:03PM (#15153990)
The reason to want people to buy in is to grow the space and incentivise vendors to build sophisticated services for it. Like with self-driving cars, a large herd benefits all members.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by prostoalex on Saturday September 02, 2017 @02:03AM (#15154570)
> did you notice that there wasn't a middleman taking a cut when you sent the money? I mean, do you have any fucking idea how much money businesses pay to the credit card companies

This guy noticed https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-you-wont-be-buying-a-coffee...

"High fees make it impractical to use bitcoin as a day-to-day currency. Paying a $5 fee to send $10,000 bitcoin isn’t a big deal, but it’s hard to justify buying a cup of coffee with bitcoin if the transaction costs more than the coffee."

Realistically, though, from the consumer standpoint Bitcoin is an electronic payments network analogous to credit cards that

1) Takes longer time to confirm (great news when you're standing in a checkout line).

2) Does not have a third party to resolve conflicts and disputes between the consumer and unscrupulous merchant or a straight out scammer.

3) Does not have a rollback mechanism in case of an unauthorized or fraudulent transaction.

4) Does not offer consumer-side rewards - cashback, airline miles, points - for usage.

Where do I sign up?

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by Cozumel on Saturday September 02, 2017 @02:54AM (#15154687)
> "High fees make it impractical to use bitcoin as a day-to-day currency. Paying a $5 fee to send $10,000 bitcoin isn’t a big deal, but it’s hard to justify buying a cup of coffee with bitcoin if the transaction costs more than the coffee."

That's what the new Lighting network is for ( https://lightning.network/ )

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by MicroBerto on Friday September 01, 2017 @11:19PM (#15154042)
It's because I can't use it to do business with anyone in my market, I can't buy anything I want with it, it's volatile, and it's an absurd waste of energy.

Enjoy the run, but sell at the right times because ultimately it will end in some form of tragedy.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by srge on Saturday September 02, 2017 @09:35AM (#15155898)
You can buy everything you want with the US dollar but given the abyssal debt of the US government, one could think it will also end in tragedy.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by rizalp on Saturday September 02, 2017 @07:50PM (#15158893)
Only if the US lost its Political Power. Currently the USD still holds its value because OPEC standardize on using it for the Oil Currency (Petrodollar), and early aggressive lending to the third world country with USD.

When electric cars become mainstream, I expect there will be a turmoil in the USD

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by cyphunk on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:44PM (#15153715)
heh, anarchist? In the course of perhaps 2 or 3 years Bitcoin has turned more anarchists I know into greedy capitalists than anything else over my entire lifetime.

HN is certainly "on board" as ycombinator and affiliates invests in various blockchain retailed companies

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by ikeboy on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:52PM (#15153747)
I've used it and noticed how miners will only include your transaction in a reasonable length of time if you pay a fee, and even that is artificially low due to the subsidy.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by cheez on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:53PM (#15153752)
Except anyone can figure out where my money comes from and where it goes. No thanks!
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by cyphunk on Friday September 01, 2017 @09:58PM (#15153768)
It still blows my mind that this isn't a bigger issue. Trying to retain any privacy with Bitcoin is an arduous process.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by omarchowdhury on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:02PM (#15153784)
Okay. So I'm anyone. How am I going to know what your addresses are? Starting from where I am right now all the way over here. You did say anyone.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by cyphunk on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:16PM (#15153829)
the first time you ever pay anyone for anything the probability that this person can determine your entire net worth is much much higher than if you were to use any other means of value exchange (Cash, credit, check, etc).
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by omarchowdhury on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:48PM (#15153939)
You're argument rests on the assumption that people are putting their entire, or close to entire net worth into BTC.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by cyphunk on Sunday September 03, 2017 @04:17AM (#15160271)
I'm playing on the fantasy that Bitcoin or similar could ever be a predominant means of value exchange or storage. It's a fantasy many hold.
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by parenthephobia on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:38PM (#15153898)
How are miners fees practically different from credit card companies' transaction fees?
Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by deweller on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:36PM (#15153888)
The tone of this comment is harsh and inflammatory. But I agree with the sentiment.

The tech is genuinely interesting and certainly doesn't lack hype. That is usually a formula for positive comments on Hacker News. So I'm genuinely curious why so many users here are against Bitcoin.

Is it because they didn't buy in early and want to justify missing the boat? Does it make people feel their own startup is somehow less relevant? Does it threaten the traditional VC funding model?

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by johnwheeler on Saturday September 02, 2017 @02:26AM (#15154626)
> Is it because they didn't buy in early and want to justify missing the boat?

Not one bit. It's because people are losing their heads over it, it's got classic bubble written all over it, and you've got people who've made money and think they're all the wiser for it.

They arrogantly carry a sentiment that detractors are just jealous. Human nature to do that--I get it.

There's a saying I heard, something like "Sure, you made a lot of money buying the stocks of tobacco companies. So what? You're still an asshole."

In my mind, buying Bitcoin is like shorting the US financial system with the idea that it sucks and should to hell anyway. But, our system with all it's flaws works pretty damn well. It shouldn't be taken for granted and bet against.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by grizzles on Friday September 01, 2017 @10:45PM (#15153927)
I don't like it because it's bad for the environment.

Eventually someone like Vanguard will come along and offer a blockchain with real value behind it. After this, all the hype around bitcoin will just look embarrassing in the aftermath.

The SEC was useful when information was hard to come by, but now it's just standing in the way of progress.

Re:Bitcoin Gets Close to $5,000 by vilmosi on Saturday September 02, 2017 @06:55AM (#15155337)
>>> If you have, did you notice that there wasn't a middleman taking a cut when you sent the money?

Not an issue for me I'm afraid (UK).