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Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by prostoalex on Thursday August 31, 2017 @07:53PM (#15145027)
They do admit they have a problem on that front and are addressing it, so there's no reason to think it's a permanent issue that will still be around in 3-5 years. Mobile deployment trucks, e.g., are handling the easiest issues that do not require a visit to a service center.

Tesla's service centers are all corporate-owned, so unlike traditional dealership model, all the startup and operating costs are born by the company, so I'd expect the initial rollout to be slower, subject to cash on hand and general priorities (invest in battery production? or ramping up model 3 production? wider supercharger availability? or service center coverage?)

There's a silver lining though - it's pretty clear the service centers are not Tesla's money-makers and the company is not in the business of devising devious ways to screw you out of more money via expensive maintenance service and various scheduled repairs.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by gordon_freeman on Thursday August 31, 2017 @09:44PM (#15145519)
If I am a Tesla owner who has paid more than $70,000 for a car then I'd at least expect my time is not wasted in waiting for my car to be serviced. All these "cash-on-hand" and "they do admit they have problem on hand" and "it's not a permanent issue" are not my problem. AFAIK, Tesla keeps investing money they make in their projects like Tesla Semi and building 4 new Gigafactories. So at this point it seems to me that for next 10 years, the "cash-on-hand" will always be short. Agreed?
Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:37PM (#15145705)
From your tone, I'm guessing you're not a Tesla owner. You're right, in that it is not your problem. If you wish to ensure it remains not your problem, don't buy a Tesla.

It's fairly new tech that's being made in small quantities. You'll face the same sorts of problems if you buy a Porsche. The Bugatti Veryon is recommended to have tire changes done by shipping it back to the factory.

Tesla is not ready for the mass market. It is not yet made in mass market numbers. Buying a Tesla today, and expecting to not suffer the consequences of being an early adopter, is silly. Maybe don't do that?

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by prostoalex on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:42PM (#15145723)
I disagree, and I am a model S owner for 18 months. Tesla vehicles seem to follow the "Microsoft in the 90s" trajectory where a 1.0 is a rushed and unstable product, 1.1 is a "service pack" fixing most issues and 1.2 is a reliable workhorse.
Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Thursday August 31, 2017 @10:57PM (#15145777)
There is much more than that to be a mass market automobile. They can't even produce enough cars to qualify. They don't have enough repair techs to even cover that many.

I should probably disclose that I actually own a bunch of Tesla stock. I'm happy with where the company is headed but they still aren't ready to be a mass marketing automobile supplier. That's probably just a few more years away, however.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by duncan_bayne on Thursday August 31, 2017 @11:20PM (#15145863)
> From your tone, I'm guessing you're not a Tesla owner. You're right, in that it is not your problem. If you wish to ensure it remains not your problem, don't buy a Tesla.

Except that's not an option for most people, because their taxes are used to subsidize Tesla. If you're a working American you've already bought a part share in a Tesla, you just don't get to drive one.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Thursday August 31, 2017 @11:32PM (#15145912)
I didn't get to drive an M1A1 tank, either.

For your $0.003 contribution to those subsidies, you get cleaner air and maybe less global warming. New tech has obstacles to overcome. Qualified service technicians will be here eventually, hopefully.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by duncan_bayne on Thursday August 31, 2017 @11:43PM (#15145959)
> New tech has obstacles to overcome.

Yep, definitely. And it should do so on the dime of investors and early adopters, not the public.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Thursday August 31, 2017 @11:50PM (#15145989)
Do you know who developed and paid for the early years of the very device, and network, you're using? How about GPS? How about vaccinations? How about police, fire departments, and libraries? Where do you draw this line?

Look, you've paid a trivial percentage of a penny to subsidize them. You want me to PayPal you a dime? I don't mind. I already pay an enormous amount in taxes. I'll send you a dime. That should cover your costs for the rest of your earning years.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by BoorishBears on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:25AM (#15146105)
I'm the owner of an EV who benefited to the tune of 10k and I have to admit in this specific case I agree with the parent comment (but maybe not the tone).

I feel like the rebates should only apply to EVs under 30k.

And maybe be a percentage off the price of the base model, since there is no reason the taxpayer should have subsidized my EV by 10k when I spent 7k on features that are completely optional.

I don't think subsidizing 90k EVs is going to bring EVs to the mainstream. The people spending 4k on FSD while AP2 struggled to catch-up with AP1 are usually not people who would have balked at a 100k Model S.

Subsidizing a 30k Nissan Leaf on the other hand, which can be a 15k used car in a few years helps get the people buying in the segments with the most cars being sold into EVs and normalizing the idea. I think EVs will really take off when people connotate EV with entry level mid-size sedans instead of top end luxury sedans.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:32AM (#15146134)
I really don't mind the extra couple of bucks. The value of subsidies is the increased adoption. The actual cost is probably lower than the cost for toilet paper for all the federal prison inmates.

I hope my taxes encouraged you to upgrade to ludicrous mode. That would make me happy.

To put it another way, I also don't mind if someone buys a candy bar with their EBT/SNAP card. Of all the tax dollars we spend, this pretty much falls into the couch-change category.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by duncan_bayne on Saturday September 02, 2017 @04:25AM (#15154933)
It's not about whether you mind, it's whether people who do mind should be forced to contribute.
Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Saturday September 02, 2017 @12:16PM (#15156738)
Yeah, no. That's not how society works. Rand was an idiot.
Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by duncan_bayne on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:30AM (#15146354)
> Where do you draw this line?

Well, if it were up to me? I'd stop it entirely. Pare Govt. back to 'core business': courts, embassies, Police, Defense (actual defense, not invading foreign countries on a whim), that sort of thing.

There's a grey area around public funding of defense-related technologies; it's hard for several reasons, especially the tendency towards such systems becoming incredibly corrupt.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by KGIII on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:46AM (#15146417)
I disagree, but can respect your opinion. I am actually probably best described as a libertarian socialist. I'm in the lower left of the political square.

I was a libertarian before the rise of Rand and the usurpation of the moniker. We used to be the crazy left, actually. I prefer to think of it as pragmatism.

If you want to put it on a bumper sticker, I basically want to ensure as much individual freedom as I can, while ensuring protections of the commons. As an avid hunter, fisherman, and gardener, I certainly consider the environment to be a part of the commons - and don't mind subsidizing things to improve it.

It's pragmatism and an awareness that humans are not rational actors who operate with complete information.

Note: I am not asserting that I am correct and you must change your views. I'm expanding to show why I believe as I do. I also don't mind taxes. I actually pay more than I use, but I am paying for the system that enabled that.

Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by an_account on Friday September 01, 2017 @12:09AM (#15146056)
All our taxes are used to subsidize gasoline too.
Re:Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k mainten... by duncan_bayne on Friday September 01, 2017 @01:28AM (#15146350)
Yep. But two wrongs don't make a right.