News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by jdietrich on Sunday August 27, 2017 @11:43PM (#15114283)
A lot of highly experienced jumpers are also dying, probably due to a mix of complacency, envelope-pushing and the inherent lack of margin for error in terrain flight. This point is made in the latter part of the article:

> Figuring out why the best are dying confounds, saddens, and even irritates just about everyone I’ve spoken to in the wingsuit BASE world. “It’s really puzzling to me,” says Rich Webb. “I wish I knew, but I think it has to do with complacency.”

> Webb points out that many of the best are dying on flight lines that might be considered either “easy” for them, or they’re lines that they’ve done before. “It comes down to the fact that they're so comfortable in a stupidly high-risk environment,” says Webb. “We just don't have the luxury of margins in our sport, so at some point it catches up to you if you're not on it all the time.”

> Andy Lewis speculates, “I would say so many experienced wingsuiters are dying because they are trying to execute jumps with very low margin for error. Eventually when you make a mistake you hope you have room. And now low margins are so standard in the sport. It just kills people.”

Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by j1f4 on Monday August 28, 2017 @04:15AM (#15115163)
This reminds me of Freeman Dyson's research on British Bombers during WWII -- the data showed experienced crews didn't fair better than novices, but they didn't figure out why till after the war.

> Bomber Command told the crews that their chances of survival would increase with experience, and the crews believed it. They were told, After you have got through the first few operations, things will get better. This idea was important for morale at a time when the fraction of crews surviving to the end of a 30-­operation tour was only about 25 percent. I subdivided the experienced and inexperienced crews on each operation and did the analysis, and again, the result was clear. Experience did not reduce loss rates. The cause of losses, whatever it was, killed novice and expert crews impartially. This result contradicted the official dogma, and the Command never accepted it. I blame the ORS, and I blame myself in particular, for not taking this result seriously enough. The evidence showed that the main cause of losses was an attack that gave experienced crews no chance either to escape or to defend themselves. If we had taken the evidence more seriously, we might have discovered Schräge Musik in time to respond with effective countermeasures.

...

> the German pilots were highly skilled, and they hardly ever got shot down. They carried a firing system called Schräge Musik, or “crooked music,” which allowed them to fly underneath a bomber and fire guns upward at a 60-degree angle. The fighter could see the bomber clearly silhouetted against the night sky, while the bomber could not see the fighter. This system efficiently destroyed thousands of bombers, and we did not even know that it existed. This was the greatest failure of the ORS. We learned about Schräge Musik too late to do anything to counter it.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/406789/a-failure-of-intel...

The wingsuit jumpers consider possible dangers to lie with complacency of experts on easy flights, experts envelope pushing, or novices jumping unprepared. But these factors are all so contradictory that I'm left wondering if there is a hidden risk that affects novices and experts alike.

Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by agarden on Monday August 28, 2017 @09:28AM (#15116362)
Fascinating.

In a comment elsewhere on this page capncrunch suggests downdrafts[1]. Seems like the kind of thing that could randomly strike novices and experts alike.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15114380

Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by Dwolb on Monday August 28, 2017 @05:34AM (#15115432)
That's a great story.

My first instinct for where to look to find things that would affect experts and beginners alike is manufacturing defects or poor suit design.

I'd say also weather but that seems more likely to be highly variable and prone to skill (i.e. experts know when conditions are poor).

Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by jacquesm on Monday August 28, 2017 @06:44AM (#15115661)
I would look no further than the basic ingredients of the sport: speed, gravity, zero margin for error and over a long enough run of events you are destined for the morgue. This is not a sport, it is suicide in disguise.
Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by dhimes on Monday August 28, 2017 @09:54AM (#15116506)
One more thing: it's turned into a small industry. Some of the work in it I am certain is considered to be partly art (I am thinking of the analogy to the sailing industry in the early years of yachting). I wouldn't rule out a look to "advances" in suit design where the new engineering has an unforeseen consequence. Something the advanced guys would jump on board with, but we don't have enough data yet to determine the failures.
Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by TheCondor on Monday August 28, 2017 @09:31AM (#15116377)
Does experience grow the margin of error? Do "incidents" become less fatal? Like in Russian roulette, its possible that experience doesn't improve your odds when something bad happens.

Sky diving is a little different, if a chute fails to open, your ability to remain calm and deal with it and deploy the backup makes a difference. In a lot of extreme activities I could see experience making a huge impact during incidents, flying suits might not be that forgiving.

Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by PoachedSausage on Monday August 28, 2017 @09:19AM (#15116309)
It could just be the non-linearity inherent in flight. Or perhaps being in proximity to the surface causes the Reynolds number to be more variable, meaning 10 experts could do the same maneuver and have different outcomes.
Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by joelrunyon on Sunday August 27, 2017 @11:48PM (#15114298)
It shouldn't be that confusing.

The mortality risk here is ridiculously high. No matter how good you are at something, you're not perfect. In any other sport, you can be a half-second late and have normal consequences, recover and be okay. In BASE, you're dead.

Re:Increasing numbers of wingsuit jumpers are dying (2016) by Powerofmene on Monday August 28, 2017 @12:52AM (#15114461)
When a person loses fear they take greater risks or feel invincible, neither a good when executing a maneuver that has a very small margin of error.