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Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by nickbauman on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:16AM (#15072029)
Cryptocurrency is probably doomed because the makers of cryptocurrencies have a fundamental conceptual disconnect with money: what it is, why it works and what it represents. Money only works when you have a powerful state actor enforcing the legality of the transaction. When you try to escape that, you get at best a parallel system that still goes back to the state for help in keeping functioning or a system prone to failure, fraud and speculation. To whit yet another one of these incidents.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CPLX on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:37AM (#15072790)
Perhaps. Another way of looking at it is that they have an intuitive and successful connection with the mechanics of gambling.

Cryptocurrencies and ICO's as they stand today conceptually have a lot more in common with the old urban numbers rackets[0] than they do with the concept of currency.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_game

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by justadeveloper2 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @12:02PM (#15073694)
I had an uncle who used to "carry money" for numbers rackets in NY which I think means he was involved in racketeering. I don't claim to understand how it worked, but I know the winning numbers were related to the winners of certain horse races. The state lottery pretty much put an end to it.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by empath75 on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @12:17PM (#15073850)
I'm a cryptocurrency skeptic, but money works if people accept it as a medium of exchange. People are willing to trade goods and services for bitcoin, so it's money.

Now, without a nation-state backing it, it's going to potentially have problems with stability, regulation, etc, but that doesn't mean it's not acting as money now.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:55AM (#15072385)
> Money only works when you have a powerful state actor enforcing the legality of the transaction.

Fiat currencies work this way. Gold and cryptocurrencies do not, but they still work all the same, though gold is not very convenient in the modern world.

> failure, fraud and speculation.

These ICO hacks are separate from the fact that cryptocurrencies do work and are working right now. Preventing fraud is not a feature of any currency. Speculation is something that happens with any investment, I'm not sure why you think that there is or should be efforts to prevent it.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by nickbauman on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:47AM (#15072898)
I never said anything should be prevented. But you just illustrated my point exactly. Gold (and cryptocurrencies) cannot support a market economy because of the problem of hoarding a limited resource and the lack of representation of debt. Even the ancients knew this: they would require taxes be paid in the _coin of the realm,_ not just gold. Requiring this made it possible for monarchs to facilitate a market economy. They paid their soldiers in the coin. The peasants traded with the soldiers in order to pay their taxes. Markets emerged from this.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @01:36PM (#15074650)
> Gold (and cryptocurrencies) cannot support a market economy because of the problem of hoarding a limited resource and the lack of representation of debt.

That's a bold claim to throw out there with nothing to back it up. Gold has been used as a currency for thousands of years. Crypto-currencies are out there working whether you like it or not. To say that they can't work is pretty silly when they are literally working right now.

> they would require taxes be paid in the _coin of the realm

First, you should source this since it sounds like you are talking about a specific country at a specific time in history.

Those were usually made of gold and silver. Why do you think coins have cleated edges? It's so people can shave them off without someone knowing.

Also countries used gold to transact between each other, no matter what they tried to press on their citizens. The longest any fiat currency has lasted is around 300 years, most don't last 50. Our current world wide currency system is only about 40 years old. The transition came after Charles DeGualle started to reclaim France's gold after the Vietnam war because he feared the US didn't have enough gold to redeem their dollars. Nixon was forced to take the US off the gold standard completely and our current system was born.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @01:46PM (#15074751)
> Gold has been used as a currency for thousands of years.

But not supporting a robust market economy until it (and other metals) were reduced primarily to accounting units for many transactions, so the real “currency” was, in substantial parts, debt instruments, not actual gold. I mean, this is true even in emergent pre-capitalist market economies, which were fueled by (and fueled, in a positive feedback loop) the development of banking.

There is a huge difference between a commodity currency like gold and a commodity-backed currency like gold-denominated debt instruments.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by lloyd-christmas on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @02:47PM (#15075301)
Cowry[0] is an even better example than gold. It predates gold coinage, and was used between 3000BC[1] all the way to the 19th century[2] as a cross-culture currency throughout the world. Its scientific name is even Monetaria moneta.

[0] http://www.conchsoc.org/interests/shell-money.php

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money#History

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetaria_moneta#As_money

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by nickbauman on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @03:40PM (#15075692)
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:23PM (#15076520)
That's one person's opinion and prediction of the future, the same as yours. It is not proof or even evidence of anything. Cryptocurrencies literally work right now.

People that keep saying a currency that doesn't have a central authority leeching off of it by printing more and using it however they want perplex me. If all else was equal, would you choose to put your money in a currency that continues to be worth less and less or a currency where that is designed to not be devalued?

You can say it won't work all you want, but when people have a choice of what currency to use, they aren't going to choose one that is meant to inflate. The only reason people use inflationary currencies is because they don't have a choice.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by nickbauman on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:40PM (#15077866)
Oh this is only one citation, my friend. There are many other economists that have studied this phenomenon, even if they haven't applied it to cryptocurrencies.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @11:22PM (#15078281)
You can find people who will say anything about the future, it doesn't make them right or their thoughts well reasoned. Paul Krugman said the internet was worthless and more recently that Bitcoin is worthless.

You need to connect the dots and explain yourself, which you don't seem to be doing.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by nickbauman on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @03:26PM (#15075592)
The "Coin of the Realm" source: Page 49 of Debt, The First 5000 Years by David Graeber.

https://libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @05:24PM (#15076525)
I'm not really in a position to read a 540 page pdf right now, maybe you should pick a line you like.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by nickbauman on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:41PM (#15077868)
I did.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by jankins on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:48AM (#15072312)
I think you are making an assumption that seems common sense but might not actually hold: that cryptocurrency will fail if it is prone to fraud, speculation, theft, etc.

I think it's interesting that cryptocurrency has achieved its current level of success despite those things being widely known and publicized. Users accept the risk to gain the benefits of the platform.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by Retra on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:31AM (#15072745)
It appears one of the benefits of the platform is the ability to easily commit fraud, speculations, theft, etc.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by jankins on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:55AM (#15072990)
Yep :P that's definitely a benefit for a class of users, but it's not the benefit that all users are interested in, and all the other benefits are linked to those vulnerabilities. (in the current implementations anyway).
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by autokad on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:20AM (#15072062)
maybe, but this particular incident was more along the lines of phishing and little to do with the cryptocurrency itself
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by option on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:48AM (#15072305)
bitcoin is probably doomed in US because it is taxed as asset and isn't considered a "money" by the IRS. Hence to actually legally use it as a money is a huge pain tax-wise (imagine having to calculate holding periods and capital gains each time you buy a coffee) But US isn't entire world.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:56AM (#15072403)
People keep saying this, but it just isn't true. All you have to do is match transactions with price. It can be done automatically.
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by option on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @10:01AM (#15072460)
A lot of things "can be done". And what is not true? Bitcoin IS considered an asset by the IRS
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by ringaroundthetx on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @09:36PM (#15086933)
> Bitcoin IS considered an asset by the IRS

Yes, that is true and nobody was arguing that with you. Thats not controversial or interesting to anybody but you.

It simply makes other considerations necessary to use it practically. And software already exists to alleviate how it is used, when used as payment network rails.

In your attempt to imagine next week's death knell for bitcoin, in the US, you missed all the tax advantages the IRS has created for bitcoin by classifying it as property, such as the ability to like-kind exchange forever and never have a tax event (unless you buy something).

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by CyberDildonics on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @11:08AM (#15073122)
> bitcoin is probably doomed in US because

a bold prediction, not backed up by what you are saying because:

> to actually legally use it as a money is a huge pain tax-wise

Is not true.

Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by kusmi on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @12:51PM (#15074171)
I must confirm, this is sarcasm?
Re:Hackers nab $500k as Enigma is compromised weeks before i... by japhy__ryder on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:47AM (#15072297)
Well Bitcoin has been doomed since 2011, so I guess if you just keep saying that, it will eventually be true. Until then, it looks like it'll be around for a while.