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Re:Who should be shamed, and who not? by nostrademons on Monday August 21, 2017 @05:52PM (#15068129)
Not at all unique to America. America actually falls much more on the guilt side of the guilt vs. shame-based culture spectrum. (For those unfamiliar with the difference: guilt is the emotion we feel when we've done something bad, shame is the emotion when we believe we are bad. Guilt presupposes a distinction between a person's worth and their actions, and assumes that once a person who has done bad things has repented, made amends, and is no longer doing bad things, they are no longer a bad person. Shame assumes that character is an innate personality trait, and once a bad apple, always a bad apple.)

Far-eastern countries like China/Japan/Korea and honor-based cultures like the Middle East tend to be much more shame-based. It's not unheard of in America to go to prison, do their time, get out, and start a huge company (IBM, for one). Or to go bankrupt 4 times, sexually assault women, have this all highlighted on national TV, and still end up president. This would be unheard of in a culture like China, where you basically need a squeaky-clean public image (what you do in private is a different story) to get anywhere.

Re:Who should be shamed, and who not? by Overtonwindow on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @12:16PM (#15073843)
"sexually assault women, have this all highlighted on national TV, and still end up president. "

You mean Bill Clinton? I think you're misinterpreting societal shame. Far east countries, as you call them, do have heavy shame and saving-face issues, but society as a whole recognizes that shame. In America, the shame is never-ending, and it's used as a weapon. It becomes less about a societal tool to punish bad behavior, than as a sick and twisted mechanism for one person, totally unrelated, to exact some harmful retribution.

Re:Who should be shamed, and who not? by nostrademons on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @12:41PM (#15074088)
The "bankrupt 4 times" part is Donald Trump, obviously. "Sexually assault women" includes a number of American presidents, including Trump, Bill Clinton, JFK, Thomas Jefferson, and likely others, though only Clinton and Trump had it paraded through the media. I'm making a general statement about who the American people are willing to elect, one which has been proven over and over again.

My other point is that when it's just one person, totally unrelated, trying to exact some harmful retribution on a person, that's not shame, that's vengeance. Shaming requires enough of a consensus that you can convince a person, in their own head, that they're a bad person. And this is easier to do with some people than others: I remember being bullied extensively as a teenager until I was convinced that I was worthless as a person, while now, in my 30s, I'd just think "Wow, those were some really fucked up kids that I never want to see again in my life."

But in terms of actual objective consequences to these shaming episodes, in American society - they're pretty light, as long as the victim has enough inner strength to shrug it off and just find new people. Clinton and Trump both became president. Mel Gibson and John Downey Jr. are still making movies. Brendan Eich, another prominent case of an Internet shaming mob, ended up founding Brave and raising $40M via ICO. Andrew Torba got blacklisted by YC and virtually every Silicon Valley company, but Gab is the darling of the Breitbart crowd. Like I said in another comment, no matter how offensive your views, you can always find another American who shares them.

Re:Who should be shamed, and who not? by BrendanEich on Wednesday August 23, 2017 @04:39PM (#15084861)
That John Downey Jr. is great as Captain Iron Man :-P.

What happened with me resigning from Mozilla was something other than a shaming incident. Anyone aware of California Law, corporate governance, and Mozilla's CEO history who was paying attention should be able to figure it out.