Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfortable

Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by cyphar on Saturday August 19, 2017 @09:38AM (#15053272)

I'm from Australia. I personally don't find it morally objectionable (because it's not hurting anyone) though I would consider it to be a grey area. I believe that lolicon is illegal here (or at the very least not explicitly legal), because it's effectively a depiction of child pornography. That's the reason most people find it objectionable, effectively due to the (entirely justified) taboo around underage sexuality and the worry it will lead more real child pornography.

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by ue_ on Saturday August 19, 2017 @10:06AM (#15053417)

It is very much illegal, as is stories depicting it. Here's an Australian supreme court of the Northern Territory case describing such a ruling: http://www.supremecourt.nt.gov.au/documents/judgements/2014/...

It is also illegal in Canada (similarly with stories), some US states, some European countries, and England, Wales and Northern Ireland (though only drawings rather than stories as far as I know).

I think such laws are hideous.

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by cyphar on Saturday August 19, 2017 @10:22AM (#15053509)

Yeah, now I remember reading the news about that case a few years ago. I think that decision is understandable, though I don't agree with classifying something that is obviously not child pornography as "child pornography".

Also note that in Australia "supreme court" does not mean that its rulings determine federal common law, that rests with the High Court of Australia (the next court up)[1]. So on paper, other States could have different laws on the topic (but I haven't checked whether the case was appealed to the High Court).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary_of_Australia

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by etplayer on Saturday August 19, 2017 @10:35AM (#15053583)

Thank you for your information on the system, I had no idea, I'm only vaguely familiar with the system in England and Wales. It's worth noting, however, that the fact it is illegal is specified in the state code rather than being decided by this court case. There is a similar case which I think is rather silly that a man in Australia was convicted of having 'Simpsons porn' which featured two underage characters from the Simpsons.

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by cyphar on Saturday August 19, 2017 @11:07AM (#15053783)

> It's worth noting, however, that the fact it is illegal is specified in the state code rather than being decided by this court case.

Ah, you're right (I didn't read the whole document). In case you're interested, in other states there is a different criminal code (called the Crimes Act (1990) in NSW)[1]. The section on "child abuse material" (15A) is quite vague on what limits there are for something being "material depicting child abuse" and there is also a catch-all statement saying that something is also considered child abuse material based on " the standards of morality, decency and propriety generally accepted by reasonable adults".

In general I would be surprised if it was legal in any state. I also checked, and it's considered "objectionable material" in New Zeland[2].

[1]: https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/inforce/a0a6239c-5e99-6ad... [2]: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0094/latest/w...

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by Retric on Saturday August 19, 2017 @10:21AM (#15053503)

As another poster points out Japan does not have a higher rate of actual child sexual abuse. So, does the lack of any actual harm influence your opinion?

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by cyphar on Saturday August 19, 2017 @10:25AM (#15053521)

You have to take into account that in Asian countries the reporting of sexual abuse is likely much lower because of social stigmatization. From what I've heard second-hand it's perceived as being shameful for your family to be a victim of such abuse, and I imagine that would affect the statistics.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with whether it causes actual child sexual abuse, it's just something to consider.

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by mcguire on Saturday August 19, 2017 @01:41PM (#15054582)

Be careful when comparing crime rates between countries. Japan, in particular, has...odd statistics.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9

Further, sex crimes are...different everywhere.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/12/08/voices/for...

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by Retric on Saturday August 19, 2017 @02:25PM (#15054818)

There is some bias in that reporting. The US rate of autopsy 8.5 percent the Japan rate is 11.2%. So, if your comparing the US with Japan it's the US that's more likely to miss something based on national rates. As to the second, US rape victims are often told not to report and prison rapes are frequently just ignored.

From a sociology standpoint you need to be careful when doing cross country comparisons. But, reported statistics are not simply accepted at face value.

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Re:Mastodon is big in Japan, and the reason why is uncomfort... by mcguire on Monday August 21, 2017 @04:58PM (#15067810)

The US rate of 8.1% (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db67.htm) is for all deaths. The Japanese rate of 11.7% (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2016/02/27/editorials/t...) is for "unusual deaths". (Yeah, I wish I could find better figures, but all I get are abstracts for papers about the reasons for Japan's low rate of autopsies; the papers are behind paywalls.)

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