News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by rsj_hn on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:18PM (#15005808)
You may not view this as a first amendment issue, but it's certainly a housing discrimination issue. Many localities have laws preventing housing discrimination based on political belief -- for example, D.C.

You can expect that if stuff like this starts happening more often, other jurisdictions will also respond.

In general, "I am free to not rent my property to a certain undesirable element" has a pretty ugly history, as most societies don't view housing as just another optional consumption good.

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by flunhat on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:21PM (#15005820)
What about "I am free not to rent my property to those who want me killed and my kind ethnically cleansed"?
Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by rsj_hn on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:29PM (#15005857)
It's the bigots who are most fearful. People also wouldn't rent to african americans because they were afraid of their daughters being raped, etc.

You know, renting your property is not an existential struggle and not everyone who reads Breitbart wants to have you and yours ethnically cleansed. There are laws to protect you, and you really don't need to be helping out the police with your fears.

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by flunhat on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:37PM (#15005901)
Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing. African Americans do not. I cannot believe I am having this debate, and on HN of all places. Has the world gone insane?
Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by alexknvl on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:49PM (#15005958)
But who do you trust to decide that someone is a Nazi? Should it be Slate, some government bureaucracy, you personally, AirBnB? What if someone labels you a Nazi?

Should we just throw them into water and see if they float? Or administer a "are you a Nazi" test on a polygraph?

EDIT: This is a problem of the current political climate where words have lost their meaning. A lot of people even remotely right of center have been called a Nazi or "alt-right" or "white-supremacist".

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by yongjik on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:59PM (#15006007)
> Should we just throw them into water and see if they float? Or administer a "are you a Nazi" test on a polygraph?

How about good old fashioned, "Is that a fucking swastika your friend is carrying over his shoulder?"

https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/896385942495285248

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by flunhat on Sunday August 13, 2017 @08:52PM (#15005970)
This isn't that hard - Airbnb has the right to ban Nazis from its platform. It has the right to ban anyone it wants to from its platform, with the exception of protected classes laid out in law, because it is a private company. I really, really do not see the controversy here.

Obviously, you can't tell if someone is a Nazi, so only those who openly display their ideology should be banned.

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by thinkfurther on Monday August 14, 2017 @08:40AM (#15008199)
When they run around with torches and swastikas, they're Nazis. What's the problem? When someone steals your car, are you also hesitant to call them a thief because "people have been called thieves for bad reasons before"? Yes, and?

But generally, yeah, let's test people for lack of empathy and other things. That would be much more interesting than what particular ideology they dress the underlying issues up with, and it would also address the "shutting people up for voicing things we can't handle because they're correct" crowd that hide under the mantle of social justice and whatnot.

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by rsj_hn on Sunday August 13, 2017 @09:21PM (#15006067)
>"Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing"

Yes, the "Nazi ideology" espouses this. But you are renting to actual people, and

1) You have no way of knowing whether _they_ really espouse the ethnic cleansing of you and yours, or whether you just think they do. Lots of people wear swatstikas but they don't actually favor mass extermination. There are holocaust deniers who are called Nazis and maybe even view themselves as Nazis but, pretty much by definition, don't support the holocaust. As another example, elsewhere in this thread you have made characterizations about me that don't have any basis in reality, so who is to trust you to decide whether someone truly wants to ethnically cleanse you and yours?

2) even if they were _actual_ Nazis, which you have no way of knowing, by renting to them, you and yours are not going to be ethnically cleansed. The fact that someone has a political belief is not in and of itself a cause to make them fail to pay rent or fulfill any other of their obligations as tenants. As a result, in many jurisdictions, it's illegal to not rent to them.(a)

3) There is a strong likelihood that landlords will end up refusing to rent to people whose views they don't like. A capitalist landlord can refuse to rent to a communist, because the communist wants to overthrow them. That will turn into not renting to someone who is interested in communism, etc, which will turn into not renting someone who attends a communist rally. Someone else in this thread decided that a Swatstika on a "friend" would be enough evidence, so now we are getting into not renting to someone based on their associating with people suspected of Nazism, etc.

(a) In California, it is illegal to not rent to someone based on "arbitrary characteristics" not related to their ability to fulfill the terms of the lease. See, e.g. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/30/business/la-fi-rentw...

Again, the laws differ jurisdiction by jurisdiction.

Believe me, it's not the leftists who end up owning most of the property. These protections are part of living in an open society in which people are not discriminated against based on their beliefs. As we get more of a housing crunch and in many cities there is a growing population of renters, it becomes more important that your political affiliation not disqualify you from access to shelter. This may mean that some landlords have to rent to those whose politics they dislike, but that's the price of living in a free society. You are free to espouse any ideology you want as long as you don't break any laws.

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by flunhat on Sunday August 13, 2017 @09:24PM (#15006086)
> You have no way of knowing whether _they_ really espouse the ethnic cleansing of you and yours

If they're Nazis, make Hitler salutes, and fly flags with swastikas on them, of course I do! That's practically the point of ideology lmao

Re:Airbnb’s ban of Nazis in Charlottesville sets an importan... by rsj_hn on Saturday August 19, 2017 @01:31AM (#15051852)
No, giving Nazi salutes and wearing armbands is Nazi cosplay. It doesn't make you an actual Nazi. Sid Vicious wasn't a Nazi. Biker gangs aren't Nazis. The Nazi ideology is about suppressing your individuality and pledging everything to the state. That's why they had morning to night regimented groups. They controlled the schools, after school programs, hobby organizations, even vacations. It was all state run. It's this type of regimentation that makes it really extreme and virulent, as opposed to just white nationalism as espoused by people like Churchill and FDR. So please be careful when slapping the label Nazi on everything in order to justify your own discrimination against groups you don't like.

People wear transgressive symbols and put on transgressive displays in order to piss others off and show their own independence. But wearing a Che Hat doesn't make you a communist, neither does sporting a hammer and sickle arm band. Neither does singing the International. Please don't confuse performative displays with the real thing: kids dressing up as historical cowboys and indians are not actually cowboys and indians. Stop pretending.

Lastly, we don't live in a society of self-help for this stuff. You are obligated to rent to anyone who can fulfill the terms of the lease, and if you don't like that, then get out of the rental business. Let the police be the ones charged with preventing mass extermination. Petty discriminations don't help protect anyone.