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Re:Why I Was Fired by Google by wahern on Friday August 11, 2017 @06:48PM (#14995008)
How is it similar?

I worked with a guy circa 2002 who emigrated from Russia in the 1990s. He was from a fundamentalist Christian sect who had _all_ his teeth knocked out by the butt of a gun in a Russian prison. This would have been sometime in the 1990s.

He was a good engineer but pretty abrasive, and ended up leaving on his own accord. But even _if_ he was fired for expressing his unorthodox political or religious ideas at work, I doubt he'd equivocate it with the treatment he received in Russia.

All these senseless equivocations do everybody harm. Supposedly liberal college students do something similar with their micro-aggression framing device; it's not reasonable in that context, either.

We can debate Damore's points endlessly. But at the end of the day plenty of women still suffer old-school sex discrimination across the board. As that disappears, I'm pretty confident we'll have less reason to discuss more abstract discrimination issues.

Basically, if you disagree with some of the approaches utilized by the left for addressing discrimination (and there's plenty that reasonable people could disagree with), then the most constructive reaction is to redirect the discussion to more concrete, historical manifestations of discrimination.

Most ideologies on the right and left are constructed of poor equivocations and metaphors. And the so-called culture war is just an endless escalation in the sophistication and depth of equivocation and metaphor.

It's like in programming. Most debate is pointless bike shedding once the discussion is divorced from a reproducible bug or well-articulated pain points. Which isn't to mean if it's not clearly reproducible that a problem can't exist; just that if the problem isn't yet empirically grounded you can't have productive discourse. Equivocation rarely helps in this regard. If you have to resort to equivocation you've all but conceded that the problem lacks the necessary qualities which make it amenable to solving.

If you can't have productive discourse, then there are better ways to spend your time. There's no dearth of reproducible bugs or well-articulated pain points, in programming or in society. And people are always free to put in the hard work of empirically grounding a debate. Unfortunately, discrimination research is inherently tendentious because of the nature of the problem, which compounds all the other shortcomings of economic, sociologic, and psychological methodologies. But it's not impossible and we should encourage people to take up the challenge. Part of that encouragement is to criticize pointless equivocations; to make it clear that they're not an acceptable substitute.

Re:Why I Was Fired by Google by pandaman on Friday August 11, 2017 @10:49PM (#14996151)
The USSR fell in 1991, the guy who went to prison in 1990s likely went there for a regular crime. Most political prisoners were released in late 80s (ones who left in 90s were people who participated in various wars of 1980s-1990s or were politicians charged with regular crimes). The whole arrest at night, the family arrested too, a trial by three ("Troika") and 10 years of camps/execution is from the Collectivization and the various Purges of 1930s.

In the USSR after the War, if you merely criticized the Party line (e.g. say "We are a Communist country but the Proletariat is rarely consulted by the Party, I think the Party has to pay more attention what the working class people think.") you'd get the treatment ardit33 described. You would not get arrested, you would not be thrown in prison, you'd just get, what they called "wolf's ticket" - a record of "anti-soviet agitation" and then you would not be able to get any decent job, ever. People worked as janitors or threw coal in the communal central heating. Usually a single case of doubting was not enough, you'd get a talking first (quite unlike Google, it seems). Only people who directly opposed the Party were repressed with prison/mental institution.

Re:Why I Was Fired by Google by wahern on Monday August 14, 2017 @11:08PM (#15015052)
AFAIU, persecution of fundamentalist religious sects has never stopped in Russia; it preceded and succeeded the USSR. It might not often have the same imprimatur of the state as more notorious persecutions, but there's plenty of evidence that it has occurred up until this day. For example, this year there's been a crackdown on Jehovah's Witnesses, though I don't know if it's been nearly as severe as previous crackdowns. I don't care to debate whether these sects deserve to be let alone. My point is merely that the Russian police state can be exceptionally harsh. You can still find people and groups systematically traumatized by it; people and groups whose real experiences expose the ridiculousness of American conservative equivocations regarding persecution. The closest equivocation one could maybe reasonably make is to how the American state treats its black populations, but it'd still be a tenuous comparison. And even that disregards that the Soviet gulags were on another level entirely.

I can't know for sure whether my old co-worker was telling the truth. But there was plenty of circumstantial evidence that aligned well with the story. And while I don't know the precise timeline, it's not necessarily relevant.

Re:Why I Was Fired by Google by pandaman on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @06:34PM (#15031919)
I am not aware of anybody sent to prison for religious beliefs in Russia. I know one guy who had been in the USSR but he had been freed in late 80s. Got any links?