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Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by maxxxxx on Friday August 11, 2017 @12:41PM (#14991652)
I used to teach meditation and yoga for a while. One of my teachers said that meditation should make you less resilient to stress and make you realize that need to change your life. So if someone credits their material success to meditation it's best to view this as an abuse or misunderstanding of the practice.

It took me a while to accept but now I agree with this viewpoint.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by hinkley on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:23PM (#14992184)
I have a long, long way to go, but some things are much easier, like being made to wait for things, or being contradicted on important issues. Most of the chaotic places I've worked at, I must admit they lasted a lot longer than the amount of time I was willing to invest in them. All of that energy I put into pushing water uphill was appreciated by some of my peers and subordinates, occasionally by my boss, but not one bit by anyone else.

But what's downright alienating is not participating in the faux existential crises that often happen at work and that are pervasive in media.

A bad boss that is used to flogging people to action with mind games (whether they realize what they're doing or not) will simply label you as a problem for not freaking out when they want you to. For going home to your friends and family on Friday because you know the problem is still going to exist on Tuesday, at the earliest, no matter what you do.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by mparr4 on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:51PM (#14992999)
Much like the effect of psychedelics at sufficient doses: a useful tool for shining a spotlight on the things we keep hidden from ourselves.

On the flip side (and more commonly), we consume things and have practices that numb us to reality and make it easier to carry on in spite of internal dissonance.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by avtar on Friday August 11, 2017 @12:56PM (#14991862)
One of my teachers said that meditation should make you less resilient to stress and make you realize that need to change your life. So if someone credits their material success to meditation it's best to view this as an abuse or misunderstanding of the practice.

That doesn't sound accurate. Are you suggesting that one would be less resilient to stresses linked to livelihood or stress in general?

Over time meditation and yoga practices should help develop equanimity extensively, a factor that helps deal with stressful situations with more grace and emotional balance.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by maxxxxx on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:09PM (#14992033)
I think the teacher's point was that meditation should make you more aware of bad influences and create a desire to fix them.

Let's say you constantly do harmful things to other people or yourself. You can meditate and maybe get some benefit but the ultimate realization should be that you need to change your ways. That will be the only path to real happiness.

Same with the modern lifestyle. This lifestyle is ultimately unhealthy. You can build up some resilience with meditation but if you don't change the lifestyle you can't make real progress.

I would compare it people who eat too much junk food. They can switch to organic and gluten free junk food and will do a little better. But in the end real progress can be only made by removing the junk food.

Does this make sense? I don't want to pretend having deep insight. This is just my (limited) understanding.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by avtar on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:17PM (#14992122)
Thank you for expanding on your original comment. This makes sense :)
Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by Boothroid on Friday August 11, 2017 @12:58PM (#14991900)
One thing I've never quite understood - if you are teaching yourself to become more equanimous how do you avoid becoming less concerned about the things that really matter also?!
Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by avtar on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:42PM (#14992393)
Language is a funny abstraction to describe these, or any, types of experiences :P But basically what maxxxxx said, one can aim to be equanimous and yet also be committed emotionally. It would be challenging (impossible?) to cultivate equanimity while also not cultivating compassion since one is trying to find peace with whatever they're dealing with.

I had an opportunity to attend a talk where a meditation teacher described his experience dealing with cancer. Prior to being diagnosed he said he had a mindfulness practice outside of formal practice where he would set the intention to be aware of mild discomfort throughout the day and try not to react to it immediately. He provided an example of becoming aware of an itch. Instead of reaching for it and scratching he would try to bring heightened attention to the sensations, discern their qualities (if they were manifesting over a large surface area or small, increasing in intensity or fading, etc.), and try to entertain mind states that had a "if this was going to be my experience for the rest of my life would I be able to make peace with it?" quality. After three breath cycles if the sensation persisted and if he wasn't able to let it just be then he would mindfully scratch an itch. He claimed that working this way, with trivial things like itches or mild joint pain, provided a reservoir of equanimity that he was able to draw from when experiencing chemotherapy and the rest.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by maxxxxx on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:10PM (#14992046)
Equanimity doesn't have to be numbness. You can be very passionate about something and still being calm.
Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by hinkley on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:26PM (#14992210)
I had a boss who didn't understand the difference between panic and urgency. Every 'pep talk' he tried to give us turned into a short day and drinks after work because we were so depressed or freaked out.

If your friend falls in the water or is about to be hit by a bus, getting excited about it doesn't help anybody. You have do something, and quickly, but with purpose and reason.

Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by maxxxxx on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:32PM (#14992271)
I think a lot of people think it's good to be super excited about everything. You have to be outraged, really angry, deeply offended and whatever. Everything has to be amplified to the extreme.
Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by Boothroid on Friday August 11, 2017 @01:59PM (#14992559)
I agree. I should move to Finland, I gather they are more sanguine.
Re:How corporates co-opted mindfulness to make us bear the u... by Boothroid on Friday August 11, 2017 @02:01PM (#14992575)
I'm not being picky but here's a definition for passion I found quickly: 'strong and barely controllable emotion'

Surely this is at least somewhat at odds with being calm?!