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A comment on The Kolmogorov option. Parent comment

Re:The Kolmogorov option by ElmntOfSurprise on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @05:26AM (#14966880)
I actually think Galileo vs. religion is a quite fitting analogy for these kinds of issues today. There is a prevailing ideology that, if you are seen as disagreeing with it, and if you doing so is visible enough, can get you ousted from polite society. This ideology has a set of dogmatic views about the world which may not be challenged, some of which are seen as axioms of morality. Even though a good argument can be made for both sides of the fence based on the observable evidence available, the standard of proof for one side[1] is set insurmountably high, while just-so stories are widely accepted justifications for the other. Instead of looking for hypotheses that best describe the evidence available to us, we add epicycles to the models dictated to us by the orthodox view whenever discrepancies to reality get too obvious.

Damore is not "literally" Galileo, he does not fear for his life or freedom, he did not publish an original work but instead summarized thoughts that have been around elsewhere, so it is not a perfect analogy, of course.

[1] Standard of proof, but also otherwise standard it is held to: The worst possible interpretation of the document is being discussed, after liberal reading between the lines, looking for dog-whistles, and a telephone game of bad faith summaries. Case in point: > 'manifesto' accusing his colleagues of having inferior genes

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Re:The Kolmogorov option by mikeash on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @02:28PM (#14972196)
Fox News is a highly rated TV channel. Right-wing talk radio has tens of millions of listeners. Our national government is currently dominated by people who disagree with this supposed "prevailing ideology."

I am baffled by the idea that liberals dominate discourse and conservatives have to hide in the shadows to avoid persecution. I see it in a lot of comments here, and half of Damore's manifesto revolved around it. Yet not only are conservatives clearly not persecuted in general, they punch well above their weight when it comes to framing discourse.

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Re:The Kolmogorov option by unityByFreedom on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @05:02PM (#14973572)
> half of Damore's manifesto revolved around it

And, Damore is now interviewing with YouTube personalities claiming Google silenced him.

Meanwhile, every day are 4 new articles about his manifesto, which everyone can find fully linked up and formatted. There's nothing left to complain about. He's got the debate he wanted.

I feel like the strategy of denouncing media began with Trump. It's earned him tons of attention, and others have begun doing the same because they think it's true. They think their ideas are being drowned out.

I don't see that. I see tons of online discussions. From time to time, someone asks me to frame my point in a way that is more to their liking, and I'm baffled. That isn't how open debate works.

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Re:The Kolmogorov option by ElmntOfSurprise on Thursday August 10, 2017 @12:28AM (#14976360)
>There's nothing left to complain about

He just needs to get his job back, get people in his industry not threatening him any more etc... Galileo also got the discussion he wanted, eventually.

>the strategy of denouncing media began with Trump

Wasn't the media accusing Trump of being openly racist and antisemitic etc, with headlines like "If Trump wins, say goodbye to your black friends"[1]? The least I can say is that the media had a part in making this too easy for Trump.

> From time to time, someone asks me to frame my point in a way that is more to their liking

I think what Damore could reasonably be asking for is to not get fired, and not get threatened by higher ups, if he voices an opinion that would have been fine (and probably supported) had it been an equivalent left-wing position.

[1] http://www.salon.com/2016/11/08/if-trump-wins-say-goodbye-to...

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Re:The Kolmogorov option by unityByFreedom on Thursday August 10, 2017 @06:50AM (#14978375)
None of that negates the fact that these guys have had tons of press coverage. They haven't been censored at all.

I'm not going to get into whether Trump was actually racist or sexist because that's not the point.

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Re:The Kolmogorov option by ElmntOfSurprise on Thursday August 10, 2017 @12:37AM (#14976408)
I don't live in California, but I hear that if you do, and if you work in tech or academia, it is quite hard to find anyone in your social network who watches Fox News or listens to right-wing radio unironically. As I said, Damore doesn't need to fear for his life, but the people who have the greatest influence on his day-to-day wellbeing are absolutely willing to start a witch hunt as soon as he tries to argue for something that is not the Obvious Truth.

>I am baffled by the idea that liberals dominate discourse and conservatives have to hide in the shadows

So I guess you are quite surprised to find that the only people who work in tech in SV, and who put themselves on the side of Damore, do so pseudonymously, while the ones who argue against him do so in plain sight on twitter etc., with their professional identities?

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Re:The Kolmogorov option by mikeash on Thursday August 10, 2017 @09:49AM (#14979608)
"Tech in SV" is a tiny portion of the country. People are talking about this as if it's a national problem. Are there places which are insular and unaccepting of non-leftist views? Probably. Is the whole country that way? Absolutely not.
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