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Re:SKYACTIV-X: first commercial gasoline engine to use compr... by pkulak on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:03PM (#14963316)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe#Criticism

The biggest nail in the coffin of the long tailpipe fallacy is that you can drive an EV farther on the power needed to refine a gallon of gas than you can drive a ICE car on that same gallon. So, even if you built a gasoline engine that had absolutely no emissions, and oil bubbled up into crude lakes right next to every refinery, EVs would still be more efficient.

Re:SKYACTIV-X: first commercial gasoline engine to use compr... by calibration263 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @07:23PM (#14963953)
Your article states 87.7% efficiency in gasoline refining.

Energy density of gasoline is 34.2 MJ/L: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

This means there was 4.8 MJ of energy spent to create 1L of gasoline. The 70kWh(250MJ) tesla is reported to have 390KM range. 4.8 MJ would be 1.92% of the range, or about 7.5km. The Mazda 3 has a combined fuel economy rating of 33 MPG, which is about 14KPL.

As far s I can tell, your statement that an EV can go further on the power needed to refine a gallon of gas, than an ICE car can drive is off by a factor of almost two.

That said, arguing an electric car can go a certain distance based on inefficiencies of another unrelated process is not a very meaningful argument. You need to look at the efficiencies and CO2 produced for drilling/transporting/refining/burning gas vs producing/transmitting/storing/using electric power, and probably the costs of dealing with peak loads vs non-peak loads, and even then the argument is heavily weighted on where your power comes from.

Re:SKYACTIV-X: first commercial gasoline engine to use compr... by pkulak on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @04:16PM (#15030960)
Well, the US average for fuel efficiency is 25, not 33. And the Model S is one of the least efficient EVs, for worse than the average. Adjust both those numbers in the right directions and your math lines up with my point nicely.
Re:SKYACTIV-X: first commercial gasoline engine to use compr... by ouid on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @06:29PM (#14963558)
Refining gasoline seems to be ~88% efficient per your source. While this isn't negligible, it hardly changes the argument.
Re:SKYACTIV-X: first commercial gasoline engine to use compr... by pkulak on Wednesday August 16, 2017 @04:12PM (#15030911)
Sure. And an EV can drive ~25 miles on the energy in that 12%.