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Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by apeace on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:24PM (#14959439)
Try this one with your friends. Tell them that if there were no debt, there would be no dollars, because debt and dollars are the same thing.

You can quote the former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, Marriner Eccles[0]: "That is what our money system is. If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money."

This is a simplification, but it's an accurate one, and is widely understood by anyone paying attention[1].

Without even getting into a debate about the merits of our central banking system (or cryptocurrencies), most people are surprised by this fact. Most folks I have spoken to think that the dollar is still backed by gold.

[0] https://mises.org/library/our-money-based-debt

[1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/10/21/141510617/what-...

Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by seanalltogether on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:28PM (#14959491)
And if you take it a step further, you learn that debt and IOU's are at the very heart of human transactions, going back as far as society has existed. The currency needs to reflect the lossy nature of payments that people make between each other.
Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by Frondo on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:36PM (#14959572)
Yeah. The common myth is that barter preceded currency, like primitive man was going around, trying to swap his carcass for some arrowheads or something. The myth is that the development of currency followed from that, as a way to facilitate barter.

Not so, according to this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

Worth a read.

Edit: another good, quick read: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/barter-...

Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by apeace on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:41PM (#14959625)
Right, debt came first. Then we invented currency as a store of value, so that we could perform even transactions. To avoid creating debt!
Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by Terr_ on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @02:35PM (#14961039)
> Then we invented currency as a store of value

The book actually says the opposite: Currency is a standardized to-the-bearer IOU, a credit that always has a corresponding debt or obligation somewhere else, usually from the issuer.

The US dollar, for example, has always been a debt instrument, even if that debt was once "IOU some shiny metal" as opposed to "IOU services", or "IOU -1 on your tax bill".

Even with rare-metal coinage, it was important to users that the issuer would honor its stated debt-units, even if its value as a "X grams of metal Y" could go lower.

The easiest way to see that currency is not a store of value is to consider how many old bills get shredded to scrap fibers and replaced with fresh ones, all without triggering a crisis over the "value destruction" going on. It's impossible to imagine the same with, say, burning worn-down diamonds into carbon-dioxide.

Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by apeace on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @05:11PM (#14962739)
I think you're ignoring the larger "currency" and focusing on "fiat currency".

When people traded in gold (or Native Americans traded wampum, etc) it was certainly never destroyed! And there was no one in particular who would necessarily trade it for something specific, so it was not an IOU.

The book sounds great, and I loved his other book The Democracy Project. I will have to check it out.

But just because debt came first, and fiat currencies have always been based on debt, does not mean that all currencies have to be or have been.

Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by Terr_ on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @05:34PM (#14962999)
Gold chunks (and wampum) aren't currencies though, they're commodities.
Re:A quick reminder why Bitcoin was created in the first place by 52-6F-62 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:41PM (#14959628)
So Lloyd Christmas wasn't wrong when he said his IOU's were as good as cash! Take that, Bobby!

I'll see myself out.