Unlearning the myth of American innocence

Re:Unlearning the myth of American innocence by taneq on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @09:33AM (#14957623)

I see this accusation leveled at the U.S. all the time, usually in highly contrived scenarios (random people picked off the street, asked to locate landmarks in another country, then the worst/funniest performers made into a gag reel). It shits me because it's so hypocritical. I'm not from the U.S. and I have no idea where your capital city is (let alone state capitals and whatnot) and I really don't give a crap, so why should you care about mine? It's just "hurr, durr, murkins are stupid" so that equally stupid people can feel superior about something.

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Re:Unlearning the myth of American innocence by coldtea on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @11:38AM (#14958937)

>(random people picked off the street, asked to locate landmarks in another country, then the worst/funniest performers made into a gag reel).

Only it's not like that. You can ask random people yourself to verify, or you can trust one of several surveys and/or studies in the subject. E.g:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0502_060502_...

>It shits me because it's so hypocritical. I'm not from the U.S. and I have no idea where your capital city is (let alone state capitals and whatnot) and I really don't give a crap, so why should you care about mine?

Well, it's exactly the "don't know, don't care" attitude we're arguing against here.

A basic knowledge of geography is not only essential in the modern, globalized world, but also indicative of a lack of knowledge in other areas, including history and current world affairs. And that, for a country that's intervening left and right, and whose citizens are trusted to vote, rally for, or oppose parties that will perform such international interventions, diplomatic actions, etc, a lack of such knowledge is shameful.

Not as if lack of knowledge was ever some kind of badge of honor.

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Re:Unlearning the myth of American innocence by taneq on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @09:31PM (#14964781)

Memorizing names and locations of cities and landmarks in a far-off country that you have no plan to visit, when those names and locations are instantly publicly available and there is an infinite number of more useful things to learn instead, is a waste of time.

Don't conflate being able to recite geographic info with knowledge. It's not knowledge, it's just... data.

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Re:Unlearning the myth of American innocence by coldtea on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @03:30AM (#14966300)

>Memorizing names and locations of cities and landmarks in a far-off country that you have no plan to visit, when those names and locations are instantly publicly available and there is an infinite number of more useful things to learn instead, is a waste of time

Which would be relevant if anybody had asked them to do that. Nobody suggested people should "memorize names and locations of cities and landmarks in a far-off country that you have no plan to visit".

I (and others, including classical education) suggested a working knowledge of work geography -- what the continents are, what the major countries are, major cities. They should also know a thing or two about their history. You know, the history of human civilization, even if they have no plans to contribute to it.

And the "instantly public availability" of information doesn't make one smarter. Only the information already accessed (and even more so, evaluated and assessed) does. Things you know are there in your mind, available for your thoughts and comprehension, can help you follow a discussion, can be used to make judgements etc. Things one can merely look up do not inform your worldview -- they are absent from it.

>Don't conflate being able to recite geographic info with knowledge. It's not knowledge, it's just... data.

Knowledge itself is just data plus understanding them in context. Without data there's no knowledge. Don't conflate potential access to data with actually knowing things.

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Re:Unlearning the myth of American innocence by coldtea on Wednesday August 09, 2017 @07:19AM (#14967468)

a working knowledge of work geography -> a working knowledge of world geography

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