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Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by jjirsa on Monday August 07, 2017 @11:39PM (#14953933)
Cutting a check for 3-6 months severance as a sign of good faith, wrapped up in an NDA. There's no cause for anything more than that.
Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by mc32 on Monday August 07, 2017 @11:57PM (#14954074)
Those checks Apple had to pay for Jobs mouthing off "you're fired" at semi-random employees did not come with only a six month severance despite "at will" work contract.

I imagine this ex-employee will get a generous severance or expect good lawyers knocking soon.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by fellellor on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:35AM (#14954346)
I thought Jobs was a founder, not just some grunt. Maybe being an owner put him in a much better position than this guy currently finds himself in.
Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by mc32 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:36AM (#14954360)
Of course. My point is those tantrum firings cost him a million or two at a time --despite at will work.
Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by fellellor on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:58AM (#14954515)
This doesn't look like a tantrum firing. He created too much drama for his own good. As an owner, anyone would find that distracting and unnecessary. This certainly doesn't advance the company's interest in any way.

Now whether he is able to successfully sue google and make big bucks is difficult to predict at this point. But it's certain that his career is finished for the foreseeable future.

It is a profoundly stupid thing to do for anyone who likes their job as an engineer. Maybe this guy doesn't and wants to start a new career in blogging or some similar shit. In that case, this may be a great new start for him.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by mc32 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:07AM (#14954565)
It's not a tantrum firing but it's also not a firing with cause and it steers close to free speech.

If Pao could sue KPC&B, I think he stands a chance, unrelated as they are, it suggests suits can go forward on slim allegations and here he has evidence clear as day they fired him for having a difference in opinion on their hiring practices. He personally didn't discriminate nor personally conduct himself untowards anyone. He offered some (unconvincing evidence about how women don't have the same aptitude as men --but you are likely to find evidence Google does have internal hiring goals and allows a culture which virtue signals against the majority culture) and they didn't like it.

Thing is, if this had been a woman or minority citing some dubious data about how more women and minorities should be hired (which I agree with but on other principles), we would not even blink at it, if it even would have surfaced)

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by evgen on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @05:03AM (#14955892)
The problem with this line of reasoning is that Google can make a legitimate claim that the firing was for cause. Creating a hostile work environment is sufficient cause for termination, and I am quite sure that something like this is buried in some clause of the standard Google employment contract.

You don't have free speech rights at work, or more to the point you can say whatever you want and the company can do just about whatever it wants in response to this speech. To go full Godwin here, if this employee had, instead of talking about how women and minorities "lowered the bar", wrote and distributed interally a manifesto about how Google had too many Jewish employees and how these employees were mostly hired because of post-Holocaust western guilt and maybe we need to reexamine whether this whole Holocaust thing really happened I can assure you that he would have been shown the door within the hour. No one is locking him up for his speech act, but Google would have had no problem in firing him for that same speech act.

Others have pointed out in great detail all of the unpleasant future consequences for any potential interaction that leads to conflict between this employee and his peers. This situation was created entirely by the employee who posted the manifesto. He can sue Google, but he will lose.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by icebraining on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:48AM (#14954797)
If Pao could sue KPC&B

People in general can sue anyone if there's any possibility they might win. The only way her lawsuit would be thrown out if she had never worked for them, or something like that. Otherwise, the way to find out if her claims have merit is the lawsuit.

Which she lost, and was forced to pay $276k to KPC&B. So not exactly a good omen.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by mc32 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:53AM (#14954831)
Right but IIRC, they fired her for perf issues, she retaliated with harassment or discrimination.

Here they fired him not for perf (defensible) but for difference in opinion (maybe defensible but icky) not anything bad he did. I think he stands a better chance than Pao's retaliatory suit.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by DanBC on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @02:30AM (#14955017)
> Here they fired him not for perf (defensible) but for difference in opinion (maybe defensible but icky) not anything bad he did.

He wrote the manifesto and distributed it within the workplace. That's absolutely an action he took at work, that's a thing he did.

See also the Shoe Rebellion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12022280

You don't have freedom of speech at work. Apparently in the US that's not a freedom of speech issue until the Government says you can't say certain things at work.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by canoebuilder on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @02:28AM (#14955006)
And to bring this back around to the utter insanity and disingenuousness that has erupted from this episode, this is a line from the linked article, Ellen Pao’s gender-discrimination lawsuit against Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers in 2015 also brought the issue to light,

Pao's issue was shown to be a non-issue, yet "it brought the issue to light" ok...

I wonder why the author didn't mention the resolution of the lawsuit? I wonder why she mentioned it all? Oh right, peddling falsehoods, both explicitly and implicitly.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by SamReidHughes on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:35AM (#14954728)
That's not how it works. Google can fire him for no reason, and arguing with a company's policies on a mailing list is a pretty good reason to fire. Like, it's perfectly legit for a company to say shut up and get with the pogrom. Even if he's fired for saying stuff that is true. Edit: However, there might be specific technical reasons it's an illegal firing outlined in other posts in this thread. IANAL
Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by mc32 on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:41AM (#14954763)
But they didn't fire him for no reason. They fired him for a reason, but not a reason you typically fire someone for. Ergo either big severance + NDA or forthcoming lawsuit.
Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by SamReidHughes on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:54AM (#14954837)
What I'm disagreeing with your post is the general "free speech" issue. That's not going to be it. It might be some specific "raising concerns about discrimination" reason, sure. I'm not sure we're really disagreeing -- I'm only disagreeing with the general nature of your previous post. I agree that hypothetically they fired him for some illegal reason -- or that at least such could be argued in court (for all I know).
Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by notyourday on Monday August 07, 2017 @11:47PM (#14954002)
Leverage.

Government lawsuit against Google right now means that he has the leverage. The odds are the same people who are tasked with the programs to promote whatever the author carefully worded in his post are the people who received/sent emails/edited internal presentations that mentioned something that a good lawyer would be able to twist into a Google's managers admitting that Google does in fact systematically pays women less than men to do the same job. Google has a lot more to lose from that lawsuit than from the author of the memo.

[Edit: typos/clarity]

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by fellellor on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:33AM (#14954332)
Do you mean the US government would sue google on this guy's behalf?

I would think, with all they have on their plate right now, they can't be bothered about some idiot who couldn't keep his mouth shut in public and just do the job he was hired for.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by notyourday on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @12:56AM (#14954500)
Not at all. There's a lawsuit against Google: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/07/google-pa...

Government's problem in this case is the same kind of problem that government had in the US v. IBM: IBM buried government in the paperwork and government did not know where to look at to dig itself out.

Here comes the author who seems to have a very good idea of the remediation programs that Google has. The odds are extremely high the people in charge of the remediation programs/diversity programs/etc are the ones who are familiar with the issues that Google has: it is fairly logical. The author probably knows who these people are. He probably talked to them. Probably those people told him whatever he used as the basis for his manifesto. If he drags those people out into the spotlight, the government would suddenly have a beacon for their case.

That's why I, personally, think Google made a gigantic mistake firing the guy.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by fellellor on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @01:15AM (#14954611)
This is pretty interesting. Though I think Google is right to fire this guy, the collateral damage to themselves is an interesting thing to follow.

Whether he was right or wrong, he has hurt the company. I think he is wrong to be sure. But it doesn't matter.

It is also interesting because, a loss in a major legal case may throw up interesting possibilities in the stock market. Of course, one needs to be much more legally aware, than I am, to take full advantage of these possibilities.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by mirimir on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @04:17AM (#14955627)
OK, but the Department of Labor suit claims that Google "discriminated against its female employees". And Damore almost claims reverse discrimination. So I don't get how they'd work together.

However, Damore did file a NLRB claim before he was fired. So he seems prepped to sue, or perhaps to negotiate a private settlement.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by notyourday on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @08:29AM (#14957081)
They do not need to work together. DOL would just rely on the information that sees a light of day because of the author's lawsuit.

Without a lawsuit: DOL gets two million "records" (emails/docs/memos) related to hiring/performance evaluation/etc. It needs to sift through those two million records trying to find the ones that support its case.

With this lawsuit: author knows who in the organization deals with this exact issue. Those people probably had emails from their managers/sent emails to others that can be made to support governments position in DOL lawsuit. Now instead of sifting through the two million records that they got, DOL focuses on 20,000 records authored by those likely to have the kind of information.

That's why such dismissals are dangerous to the company engaged in a costly/high-stakes litigation with the government.

Re:Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo by gaius on Tuesday August 08, 2017 @03:32AM (#14955373)
How does an NDA apply when his name is already public knowledge?