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Re:Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud by CalChris on Friday August 04, 2017 @03:32PM (#14931348)
fraud != stealing

fraud wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain

stealing take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it

No, Shkreli didn't intend to steal their money since they gave it to him. However, he did in fact deceive them as to what he did with said money. So he was convicted of fraud.

Re:Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud by kbenson on Friday August 04, 2017 @03:45PM (#14931506)
Yes, I wasn't calling for no sentence, or not guilty, just that the details do provide mitigating circumstances IMO, and that might merit a lenient sentence.

Also of note, in the NY Times article[1], they call out how his defense tried to mount a defense based on the financial profit or personal gain portion of the definition.

The defense asked why Mr. Shkreli, if he wanted to commit fraud, didn’t commit fraud: He ultimately paid back his investors with shares of Retrophin, which became valuable, along with cash. His lawyers also asked how Mr. Shkreli profited, painting him as a hardworking oddball who, rather than throwing in the towel after his funds imploded, vowed to get his investors’ money back. He paid them back late, they argued, but he paid them back.

Apparently, that wasn't successful.

1: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/dealbook/martin-...

Re:Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud by nprog on Friday August 04, 2017 @06:40PM (#14932963)
Wire fraud (1343) is both inchoate and a specific intent crime. To be convicted, it doesn't matter if there was an actual loss, but must be shown that the defendant intended to defraud, that is that "[T]he purpose of the scheme 'must be to injure'" (US v Regent). This is also the 2nd Circuit, which has the most substantive case law on wire fraud in the US (Regent, Starr, McNally, D'Amato, Skilling, etc). I should add that Shkreli was not convicted on his wire fraud counts, which are among the most blunt overused weapons a prosecutor has. Almost no one survives a wire fraud charge, yet Shkreli was. He was convicted of securities fraud and conspiracy (for the same), which are also specific intent, however, 'recklessness' specifically is insufficient in a wirefraud case (helpful but insufficient), whereas in securities fraud, scienter is often shown prima facie by reckless indifference for the truth. I believe most salespersons would fail this test in this context. And, virtually every startup I've ever reviewed has unwittingly committed securities fraud, and in the hands of a prosecutor, it's usually only a question of whether they are motivated to target you (for some crime, if only they can "find it") for general behavior they disapprove of, and less so motivated to target a clear crime.

https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-949-pr...

Re:Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud by CalChris on Friday August 04, 2017 @08:20PM (#14933464)
You might say that Shkreli was charged with willfully pissing someone off, but he was also tried and convicted in a jury trial in Federal court and then unlike some sad sack foot soldier in the drug wars that prosecutors use to juice their numbers, Shkreli had and has the means for a first class defense, a defense whose singular and most brilliant tactic was telling Shkreli to STFU already.

Yes, Shkreli is probably at best guilty of being guilty. But please don't mind me at all if I enjoy this feel good item just a little more than the usual story about someone being guilty of being poor.