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Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by tpallarino on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @07:07PM (#14915488)
Except your clone doesn't have miner support, community support, and get listed by major exchanges. I hate that people are acting like anyone can just go and make a fork for free money.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by thisisit on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @10:55PM (#14916610)
Oh, but they can. Here's what this whole drama has proven:

Any one can fork a coin. Then attach a significant market value to the given fork by promoting it heavily. Or if required they can do it after the fact - They can be on the buy-side and creating an ever increasing bid to pump the fork.

As for the support, you will have human greed play a big role. Everyone holding x coin gets 1 x coin + 1 fork coin with significant value which means it will create some market as well as intice miners to mine a coin with much smaller difficulty.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by kerkeslager on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @07:59PM (#14915815)
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you claiming that Bitcoin Cash doesn't have those things? Or are you saying that those things are important factors which differentiate Bitcoin Cash from other forks?
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by tpallarino on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @08:40PM (#14916020)
"Nothing stops me from just announcing that I've cloned a copy of the bitcoin blockchain for BCM"

You can't just make random forks and have them be worth something. This is the culmination of years worth of debate and has a significant community following.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by bduerst on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @10:04PM (#14916392)
Aren't all the alt-coins examples of this happening? That anyone can fork a blockchain and give it their own rules?

The market value of a coin isn't limited to a strict mathematical function of mining power or exchanges backing it. That's the point Matt is making.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by DoctorBit on Thursday August 03, 2017 @12:29AM (#14916958)
You're (understandably) confusing a code fork with a chain fork:

Code fork: taking the source code from one project, modifying it, then offering the result as a new project. This is what the overwhelming majority of altcoins are. For example Litecoin is a five-year-old code fork of Bitcoin. Even though Litecoin's code is nearly identical to Bitcoin's, Litecoin from the beginning created its own blockchain, which shares no data with Bitcoin's blockchain.

Chain fork: taking the blockchain from one project, and adding new blocks to that chain that are not compatible with the chain's original style. Variations of this are soft forks (the block-adding rules are made more strict), and hard forks (the block-adding rules are made less strict). Both this week's BTC-BCH fork and last year's ETH-ETC fork were hard forks.

Complications: obviously, a chain fork requires changes to the relevant code to be able to work, so a chain fork usually comes with a code fork, but not necessarily. For example, theoretically, a completely new code base could be created from scratch in a clean-room kind of environment to add new kinds of blocks to an old blockchain.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by mabbo on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @10:31PM (#14916503)
Before Bitcoin Cash, all (afaik) other alt-coins weren't based on BTC's blockchain history. Ethereum, for example, raised development money by selling off the early coins on the chain.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by nullc on Thursday August 03, 2017 @07:15AM (#14918562)
> all (afaik)

No, this has been done a number of times. Clams, lumens, byteball, this thing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1883902.0 all come to mind.

It isn't done often because it's not seen as a useful technique mostly: you just gave a ton your asset to people who think it's worthless, and who may actively dislike it. Not a great way to maintain a market price.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by bduerst on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @10:37PM (#14916533)
What about Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin XT?

Also isn't that splitting hairs about requiring the blockchain history? I don't think Matt said that.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by Buge on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @10:59PM (#14916630)
If you don't share blockchain history, then you don't automatically get some of the new coin by holding some of the previous coin. So there are no issues with exchanges and shorts.

Also if you do share history, it is much much harder to start, because you start off with the previous difficulty which is very hard to mine on. If you start a new altcoin with a clean history, the difficulty starts off very low.

Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin XT have not actually forked the blockchain. So they are not separate coins yet.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by qznc on Thursday August 03, 2017 @05:13AM (#14918074)
> Also if you do share history, it is much much harder to start, because you start off with the previous difficulty which is very hard to mine on.

You need to fork the code (with your changed rules) anyways and you can adapt the difficulty then. Bitcoin Cash did exactly that. They lowered the difficulty to something like 10% of Bitcoin anticipating 10% of the hashing power. They only got 1% and there was a gap of 9 hours without any new block. They seem to be at ~1h per block now. [0]

[0] http://blockdozer.com/insight/blocks

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by bduerst on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @11:27PM (#14916750)
XT and Classic did fork the blockchain and had the history though, meaning for a time they were an alt-coin with history.

That's completely counter intuitive to what you're saying about Matt's example not having a history.

Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by DoctorBit on Thursday August 03, 2017 @12:30AM (#14916965)
No. XT and Classic were code forks, not blockchain forks. If certain runtime conditions had been met, they would have become blockchain forks, but those conditions were never met.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by Laforet on Thursday August 03, 2017 @12:23AM (#14916942)
Did they? IIRC neither fork left the proposal stage.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by clarky07 on Friday August 04, 2017 @02:18PM (#14930699)
Not really. It's 1 mining pool with maybe 1-2% of the total hash rate of bitcoin. I'm not sure it has significant community following or backing. I suspect the majority of the community would have preferred not to have the confusion in the market and avoided the split entirely
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by jmah on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @07:41PM (#14915686)
The point is, what's the threshold for "enough support"? Already for Bitcoin Cash, different exchanges have come to different conclusions on whether it's sufficiently supported to list on their exchange.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by tpallarino on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @08:41PM (#14916024)
There is no threshold, it's clearly a gradient. Some exchanges want to list it, others don't. Certain exchanges listing it gives it more value than others, and if it's impossible to trade/spend, then the coin has 0 value.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by supermdguy on Wednesday August 02, 2017 @09:45PM (#14916309)
Enough support that someone's willing to exchange cash for a "coin" from your bitcoin fork.
Re:Bitcoin Exchange Had Too Many Bitcoins by Grangar on Thursday August 03, 2017 @03:59AM (#14917775)
If you own a big mining pool you can get support. And with a simple propaganda campaign you can get people to support your fork much like BCH.