Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

Re:Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary by DropbearRob on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @08:08AM (#14899795)

well I'll be damned...

What is the legal definition of being in charge?

There is no legal definition for the term "in charge" so each case will depend on its exact circumstances and facts. Generally, a Defendant is "in charge" if he was the owner/in possession of the vehicle or had recently driven it. He is not in charge if it is being driven by another person or is "a great distance" from the vehicle.

Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or "otherwise involved with it". In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even "being near the vehicle".

This opens a WHOLE can of worms for me as I do live in the UK.. and I regularly get drunk and sleep in my campervan. According to this particular interpretation, all campervan owners who get drunk and sleep in the van can be arrested. Im thinking that due to there is no legal definition of "in charge" that this could definitely be argued in court.

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Re:Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary by kagamine on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @09:48AM (#14900521)

Like everything in UK law it is interpretation (of a police officer and a judge and your defense) and any given circumstance. If you sleep in the back of a camper van with the key in the glove box and the doors locked a police officer would be hard pushed to convict you of attempting to drive. Don't freak out just yet. Now go out of the vehicle and stand still for a while on a dark night. You are now loitering with intent (to burglarize perhaps). Now put a reflective jacket on over your dark hoodie; you are now absolved of suspicion. Get back in the camper van and have a peaceful 40. Just about anything is illegal with the wrong attitude. In the UK, my experience has been to just talk to the police and be honest, they're usually quite smart.

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Re:Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary by mdekkers on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @10:04AM (#14900680)

The times I have been over the safe driving limit in the UK, I have always climbed on the backseats to sleep, so that there could be no confusion about intent. I was once woken up by a policeman, told him I felt I was over the limit and decided to sleep in the car, and he told me "well done" and was on his way.

I think it is all about presentation (and how you speak to the police)

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Re:Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary by TheGrumpyBrit on Tuesday August 01, 2017 @11:33AM (#14901777)

The legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/5

While you can reasonably be deemed "in charge" of your camper van, if you're seen climbing into the living area with the clear intention of bedding down for the night, or are knocked awake by the police and then breathalysed, you would have a very good argument that there was no likelihood of your driving the vehicle, and therefore you would have a defence against the charge.

If, on the other hand, you climbed into the drivers seat and started the engine so you could turn on the heaters and put the radio on for a bit while you had your evening cocoa, you'd have a rather more difficult hill to climb.

If you make a habit of sleeping somewhere other than a recognised camp site, it would probably be worth your while keeping a couple of those £2 disposable breathalysers from Halfords in the glove box. Not only will it prevent you from accidentally driving while still over the limit the next day, but if you are challenged by the police while you're still drunk, it allows you to demonstrate that you have the means on hand to ensure that you won't be driving before you're fit to do so.

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