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A comment on Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadcom's WI-FI Chipsets. Parent comment

Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by thomastjeffery on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @07:15PM (#14861236)
I don't buy that.

Every wifi chipset has working drivers; therefore there is little to no value in Broadcom's driver as "IP".

Contrast that to the value of having a free driver that can receive security patches from anyone at any time.

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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by hedora on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @11:35PM (#14862510)
I'd argue most wifi chipsets do not have working drivers, but I have an apparently high bar for "working": It has to stay authenticated to a given access point indefinitely, can't kernel panic or require reboots to switch to a new network, and needs to have competitive throughout and tail latencies under load.

Most wifi adapters fail at least one of these requirements under windows or linux.

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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by freyir on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @09:45PM (#14862004)
Every wifi chipset has working drivers

Every existing Wi-Fi chipset has working drivers. A startup begins from scratch, which is one more barrier to entry.

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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by justbuchanan on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @10:11PM (#14862140)
True, but there are many open-source wi-fi drivers out there already. Unless broadcom's implementation is something out of the ordinary, releasing their driver doesn't really change the game.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by cyphar on Thursday July 27, 2017 @02:11AM (#14863022)
And experience with Broadcom's wireless drivers (and NFC chips) tells me that the only thing extraordinary about them is how awful and limited they are.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by johncolanduoni on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @07:29PM (#14861326)
Every GPU has working drivers, but optimizations within them can make huge differences in performance on the same hardware.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by monocasa on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @07:55PM (#14861468)
The driver 'optimizations' in GPUs tend to boil down to hand written replacements for unoptimal/broken shaders and API call sequences on a per application basis.

I expect a network card to not 'interpret' my traffic in a similar way.

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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by vvanders on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:18PM (#14861597)
As someone who spent a ton of time in this space(working with most mobile GPU vendors from Android E to L) you're talking about things just at the surface.

The way the drivers + backing architecture are built contains tons of IP and things that they would very much not want their competitors seeing.

Our team built our reputation and relationship on keeping that data separate and confidential despite working with just about every vendor out there.

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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by agumonkey on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:23PM (#14861620)
Adding the double blind optimizations leading to absurdly complex drivers that tries to guess how user code tries to guess driver logic... maybe vulkan will help open source GPU drivers in the end.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by thomastjeffery on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @07:40PM (#14861387)
Comparing a Wifi chipset to a video card is like comparing a bicycle to a sports car.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by fulafel on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:30PM (#14861658)
GPU drivers are very bug ridden and 3D apps can easily cause OS crashes. Apps are tested so they don't trigger those bugs. Witness all the complaint comments on webgl posts about machine crashes - and that's with a thick driver bug workaround layer in browsers.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by londons_explore on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:20AM (#14863716)
Many of the "features" of a wifi chipset are implemented in drivers or firmware. QoS? Smarter packet scheduling? Better interference protection? All of those are likley in the drivers.

Competitors could review the code and "copy" how great features work without actually copying the code.

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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by gleenn on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @08:28PM (#14861646)
Tell that to the Open and guys who have been dying for wifi drivers for years. They are definitely not all open. Furthermore, not nearly as many people are running alternative OSes on their phones as they are on other types of computers.
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Re:Remotely Compromising Android and iOS via a bug in Broadc... by colordrops on Wednesday July 26, 2017 @09:48PM (#14862013)
It's not that other chipsets have working drivers, but that am open driver would reveal technical secrets of both their software and hardware design. Not saying I agree with proprietary drivers though.
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