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Re:Ask HN: Is .NET knowledge useless? by mgkimsal on Saturday July 03, 2010 @08:37AM (#1483736)
Not sure where you're looking:

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=C%23,php&l=

There's quite a lot of C# jobs out there, but I doubt there's many in the 'dude we're a startup' scene. Perhaps there's where you're looking? The C# jobs are going to tend to be in larger corporate America (in the US, obviously.

Personally I think MS has been painting themselves in to the corner of only being a viable toolset for larger corporate America due to their pricing. They acknowledge this themselves with programs like BizSpark and WebsiteSpark.

It's a good language, and .NET is a powerful framework, just very tied to the Windows platform (mono notwithstanding). And the Windows platform is pretty expensive compared to other platforms. Although the tools are very nice, if it comes down to spending thousands on premium tools vs saving thousands and learning to do stuff 'by hand', most startups choose the 'by hand' route. BizSpark and/or WebsiteSpark can help reduce that upfront cost for a few years, but at some point you'll need to pay the piper.

If you want to work in a startup working in the web space, PHP/Ruby/Python will be the way to go. Those are even runnable on Windows - MS has made a lot of commitment to getting PHP running well on Windows. If you're looking for a high-paying corporate job, C# may be the better route, depending on where you're located. Oh, you're on Cinci - there should be a lot of options between Cinci, KY, IN, and perhaps TN or PA. You're a few hours from a lot of places.

Good luck!

Re:Ask HN: Is .NET knowledge useless? by vyrotek on Saturday July 03, 2010 @12:00PM (#1483947)
Dude we're a startup and we're a complete .Net stack! :) We're even using Windows Azure! (see profile)

We have some experience in other frameworks as well but .Net is by far our favorite. We've been happy so far with the BizSpark program too.

Re:Ask HN: Is .NET knowledge useless? by mgkimsal on Saturday July 03, 2010 @01:23PM (#1484077)
That's cool that you are. I'd suggest you're probably in a minority, but good luck to you all the same. The ability to execute on ideas is the most important thing, and if it's easier for you to execute using a .NET stack, fantastic!
Re:Ask HN: Is .NET knowledge useless? by ScottWhigham on Saturday July 03, 2010 @09:16PM (#1484887)
What minority is that exactly that they are in? .NET vs what exactly? "Microsoft vs. Open-Source" maybe? Or ".NET vs. Haskell"?

I'd think they are the minority on HN but I always chuckle at people who think all startups post/read HN and thus HN is representative of the entire startup culture...

Re:Ask HN: Is .NET knowledge useless? by mgkimsal on Sunday July 04, 2010 @08:00AM (#1485547)
To be clear, it's my gut feeling - based on the personal experiences, that most web-based startups are not using the MS platform for a variety of reasons, pricing being one of them. The "vs" example above would simply be ".NET vs non-.NET" If you think .NET-oriented web-based startups have a > 50% share of that market, I'd really be curious as to any evidence (even anecdotal) for that belief.

"startup C#" - 818 jobs http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=startup+C%23&l=

"startup php" - 1373 jobs http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=startup+php&l=

However: "php" has 17236 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=php&l=

"C#" has 41446 http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=c%23&l=

C# has a much higher number of job postings, but far fewer with the word "startup" in the post.

Yes, totally unscientific, but it seems to indicate what I'm seeing in the real world. Looking at my own network, which includes a variety of .net, php, ruby, python and java folks, the overwhelming number of people involved in bootstrapping, freelancing or startup endeavours are not using .NET.

Again, I point to websitespark, bizspark, and MS' own efforts in helping PHP operate smoothly on their own platform. 10 years ago PHP was laughed at by most MS people I know. Today, it still is by many of the same people, but Microsoft as a company must see enough demand for it that they spend time with some of the PHP development team making sure that PHP runs smoothly on Windows. MS now provides a one-click installer for PHP on top of that.

Yes, certainly, all this is simply anecdotal, and I've absolutely no way of knowing for certain how many 'startups' use .net vs not using it. When people still refer to facebook as a 'startup' perhaps the term has lost all meaning whatsoever, and anyone who's opened a company in the past 15 years is now running a 'startup'. But again, I fall back to my own experiences in and around my network. People * I know* using .NET are generally doing so in larger corporate environments (where it's much easier to afford all the tooling which makes .NET fun/easy to develop with) People I know in smaller orgs, smallbiz startup mode, or freelancing are generally not using .NET, primarily because of price.

The pricing is part of the motivation behind websitespark and bizspark programs of the past couple years. If MS themselves weren't seeing a defection in the smallbiz/startup scene away from the MS platform, I doubt we'd have seen these programs come in to existence in the first place. We certainly didn't see them 12 years ago.

This belief was also largely reinforced by casual 'in the hallway' conversations with attendees at the recent CodeStock event in Knoxville. While language-agnostic in theory, it's still largely an MS-oriented event, based on both attendees' background and session topics around 50% of the topics were .net-oriented)