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Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by ganeshkrishnan on Saturday July 15, 2017 @08:25AM (#14776322)
Are RNNs ideal to process non-textual time series information?

We are looking to replace our Arima models with RNNs and the results so far has been far from satisfactory.

The usecase is: based on sale quantity in past year, predict the sale quantity tomorrow.

Regression does not consider weekdays or weekends or similar bumps and we thought RNN w/LSTM would be well suited for this problem

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by xgb84j on Saturday July 15, 2017 @08:42AM (#14776381)
I would try to include additional indicator features for weekdays or weekends directly into your Arima model.

Also I believe that RNNs are useful mainly for highly non-linear problems. Non-linearities in a problem such as sales forecasting are best handled through interaction terms or by including non-linear transformations (e.g. logarithm) of existing features into your model.

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by ganeshkrishnan on Saturday July 15, 2017 @09:15AM (#14776486)
The problem with ARIMA is that it's more of an exponential regression rather than deep learning. We already have added weekday,weekend,month variable to it but its more of regression than deep learning.

So you are saying that RNN won't be suited for non-linear sales forecasting?

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by xgb84j on Saturday July 15, 2017 @09:44AM (#14776579)
I don't have the details of your exact use case, but I cannot imagine any complex non-linearities involved in your sales process. If ARIMA models produce decent results for your use case I would try to improve the ARIMA model through additional data, rather than switching to deep learning.

If you are convinced that there are complex non-linearities that an ARIMA model cannot describe, then I would try to use RNNs to find a pattern in your ARIMA models' residuals and try to augment your ARIMA model with an RNN.

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by nonbel on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:48AM (#14777238)
>"I cannot imagine any complex non-linearities involved in your sales process"

Knowing nothing about his sales process and features, I would assume there are many complex non-linearities (to be possibly leveraged for better predictions). I find this statement bizarre.

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by xgb84j on Sunday July 16, 2017 @03:10AM (#14780921)
What I mean by this statement is that there are lots of "tricks" such as interaction terms, regime switching and non-linear transformation of features to handle non-linearities in linear models (e.g. different food sold before Christmas).

But if you can give me an example of a non-linearity in sales forecasting that cannot be fit by a linear model but can by an RNN I'd honestly be really interested in that.

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by ganeshkrishnan on Saturday July 15, 2017 @08:26PM (#14779847)
> If ARIMA models produce decent results for your use case I would try to improve the ARIMA model through additional data, rather than switching to deep learning.

ARIMA models cannot take into consideration special scenarios or even multivariate features (Like location and time). It's good for simple forecasting but when you need more "human like" predictions we are betting on neural networks.

For example we would instinctively know that sales of turkey goes up on Thanksgiving. ARIMA model cannot factor this but RNN/LSTM should be able to (Theoretically speaking).

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by xgb84j on Sunday July 16, 2017 @03:16AM (#14780944)
There are techniques regime switching and indicator functions that can handle exactly this type of interaction in a linear model.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_variable_(statistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interaction_(statistics)

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by alexcnwy on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:43AM (#14777204)
I'd suggest lecture 14 of the fast.ai mooc on some advice on feature engineering for timeseries data to make it possible to model with something like regression (or a non-recurrent neural net - can work surprisingly well)
Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by bhuthesh_r on Saturday July 15, 2017 @05:04PM (#14778933)
Where do I find the lecture 14? I was able to find only 7 lectures here - http://course.fast.ai/ .
Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by alexcnwy on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:23AM (#14781116)
I'm not sure if it's officially out yet but if you search YouTube, you will find it ;)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6lTyqrrWVQ0

Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by superfx on Saturday July 15, 2017 @11:22AM (#14777086)
May wanna look at Phased LSTMs: https://arxiv.org/abs/1610.09513
Re:Writing RNNs in Tensorflow by ganeshkrishnan on Saturday July 15, 2017 @08:30PM (#14779854)
Keras has support for this. We will give this a shot too. Thanks!