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Re:Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by ... by DaiPlusPlus on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @06:27PM (#14748623)
I understand the issue is the loose definition of "innocent" - if you take it to mean someone shot by police who is absolutely innocent of any charge - or if you define it as someone who was doing something criminal or suspect but the situation did not initially warrant their shooting. Hence the emphasis on deescalation training.

Consider a hypothetical: two separate scenarios of kids shoplifting, one white the other black: the white kid gets called out by an officer, is pursued and apprehended without arms drawn, the police officer writes-up a citation and the kid spends the night in jail as a warning before being released. A black kid does the same thing, but the officer decides to draw their sidearm and orders them to freeze - the kid turns around to look and is immediately shot by the officer (search online for "shot for turning around police"). The officer can (at present, justifiably) say they feared for their life because they thought they were about to be charged or expected their target to draw their own firearm. Or take the same scenario but both kids do actually fight back somehow - I believe the average white police officer would still be more hesitant to use lethal force against a white assailant than a black one.

I won't deny the usual statistics ("blacks commit more crimes per-capita", etc) but don't think that's where I believe the problem is. I'm not content with the sentiment that "black lives matter" - I'd much rather it be "criminals' lives matter" (I'm aware of the straightforward racist implication - that's why I dare not say it too loudly).

Re:Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by ... by weberc2 on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @07:04PM (#14748818)
Yeah, I was purposefully vague about "innocent" because I don't know what the most interesting, precise definition would be. I agree with you that comparing results to crimes is important in assessing the role race plays in these encounters.

> I believe the average white police officer would still be more hesitant to use lethal force against a white assailant than a black one.

I thought I heard about studies into this, but I can't seem to dig them up. I'll edit or reply again if/when I find them.

> I won't deny the usual statistics ("blacks commit more crimes per-capita", etc) but don't think that's where I believe the problem is. I'm not content with the sentiment that "black lives matter" - I'd much rather it be "criminals' lives matter"

If the discriminant is criminal behavior and not race, then (by definition), the issue isn't one of race (at least not in any meaningful way). It would be good to identify if this is the case or not, so we can focus our national debate on how to appropriately deal with crime and not on racism.

Re:Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by ... by jbmorgado on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @07:06PM (#14748826)
This is not what the statistic or the study the OP pointed says.

The study is clear in its conclusions: in the hypothetical situation you just presented it is the white kid that has the higher probability of getting shot/killed by the police.

In a nutshell what the study based on the data says is: After you get stop by the police, you are more likely to get shot/killed if you are white than if you are black.