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Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by rsync on Monday July 10, 2017 @03:53PM (#14739069)
"Let me add my big one: price transparency."

Lack of price transparency bothers me as well and I wish we had it.

However, I don't know if there will ever be enough pressure to manifest this. Price transparency really only matters to the person paying the bill. Our society is very rapidly evolving to consider any healthcare cost of any kind to be an insurmountable burden that no normal person could ever be expected to pay. I suspect that the incomprehensible, ridiculous healthcare schemes that we are living through currently are just death spasms on the way to fully socialized medicine.

I'm sure there are rare people here and there that care how much a mile of highway costs to pave or how much a mile of city sewer line costs to install ... I would expect the same number of people to care about the cost of a medical procedure when their own cost is $0.

Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by drdaeman on Monday July 10, 2017 @06:59PM (#14740371)
> I'm sure there are rare people here and there that care how much a mile of highway costs

No offense meant, but I find this attitude really odd. I'm not from US and only have an overall idea how things work there, but I wonder... Isn't that still your money, even if you pay $0 directly and the rest comes from the shared pool your insurance payments or taxes are also in?

I just tend to believe there ain't no such thing as a free lunch - someone has to pay for the medical services, highway pavement or sewer line installation. People can't be expected to work for free, right?

So I think anyone participating in a collective funding effort should have at least some rough ideas how the money they pay are used. If we don't care about how government or insurance company (or whatever entity we pay our share to) manages things - we would surely end up with insurmountable burdens called "things running out of control".

Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by maxsilver on Monday July 10, 2017 @09:47PM (#14741033)
> I find this attitude really odd. (snip) I just tend to believe there ain't no such thing as a free lunch - someone has to pay for the medical services, highway pavement or sewer line installation. People can't be expected to work for free, right?

I think the issue is that most of these services are so cheap that the cost isn't ever a major factor. "No one cares" is probably more accurately stated as "no one is forced to care, because the general public can have confidence it's handled mostly responsibly".

In Michigan, for example, to completely tear down and rebuild new a lane-mile of freeway that is rated to last 20 years, cost roughly $2 million dollars in 2016. So, a brand new stretch of freeway, 4 lanes wide and 100 miles long, would cost about $400 million dollars. (That distance covers, just as an example, an entire trip from Chicago to Milwaukee)

That cost sounds insane at face value, and gets everyone worked up about "costs". Until you math that out and realize it comes out to 33 cents per citizen per month. At which point, freeways seem like a crazy good bargain. Even if you go crazy and build 20 times more freeway than that, the total cost is still cheaper than a Netflix subscription.

They're not all that low of course, but this tends generally holds true of many social services or utilities (water, sewer, electrical, firefighters, schools, police, etc). High upfront cost, high "sticker shock" value, but as a common good everyone can benefit from it becomes a pretty reasonable cost per person. Far lower than it would ever cost to do so any other way.

---

The only thing that doesn't seem to work that way in the US is healthcare. And I don't know why, but I suspect it's because it's so privatized and unregulated (so lots of profit and overhead) and also so intentionally hidden in terms of cost (so there's no way to look up costs, the way you can with any normal social service).

Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by rsync on Monday July 10, 2017 @09:20PM (#14740921)
"Isn't that still your money, even if you pay $0 directly and the rest comes from the shared pool your insurance payments or taxes are also in?"

Well, please do read the first sentence of my reply - I do care and I do wish that price transparency were extant.

Further, as a net tax payer, in California no less, I am quite interested in the actual costs of things like road paving and bridge building and subway tunneling.

But neither of those (net tax paying and interest in the pricing of social goods) are common traits.

Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by drdaeman on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @05:18AM (#14742674)
Ouch. Sorry, seems that I misunderstood your post. My apologies.
Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by bonzini on Monday July 10, 2017 @04:05PM (#14739160)
> Our society is very rapidly evolving to consider any healthcare cost of any kind to be an insurmountable burden that no normal person could ever be expected to pay

On the other hand, if prices are not managed properly, premiums get higher and higher. So even if insurance pays, you should care that prices are reasonable.

Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by u801e on Monday July 10, 2017 @06:23PM (#14740208)
Car insurance doesn't cover routine maintenance, for example. So the prices for things like oil changes are relatively reasonable. If we had to go through insurance for things like that, then I'm willing to bet that the price of the service would increase substantially and auto insurance premiums would go up quite a bit as well.
Re:U.S. health care's widespread overbilling problem by bonzini on Tuesday July 11, 2017 @01:59AM (#14741895)
Thatv may be true but, for healthcare, there is an important difference in favor of you: a car is replaceable, a life isn't.

If you don't do routine maintenance, the engine breaks down and _you_ have to pay for it.

If you don't do routine checkups, you get sick and insurance has to pay---and also, if you die those sweet premiums stop coming to them. Insurance actually has a vested interest in paying for your checkups and screenings, just like in countries with socialized healthcare.