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Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by kelnos on Saturday July 08, 2017 @12:39AM (#14724109)
This already happened. We had Flash and Silverlight. This didn't make the Netflixes of the world drop DRM, and it didn't make customers flee for DRM-free solutions. All it did was decrease security for all of us.

But yes, you do have a point that making DRM easier will likely make more content producers consider and implement DRM than before. I'm not sure there is a good solution to this right now, and yours is just vindictive and actively harmful.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by chii on Saturday July 08, 2017 @01:35AM (#14724237)
> We had Flash and Silverlight.

and when apple decides to drop flash support, what happened? Did netflix or any other video content producer suddenly decide to stop supporting those devices? No, they went with html5 video (and at that time, free of DRM). That was a great step forward for DRM free content for the web.

By making the web standard include a mechnism to include DRM natively, this means content producers once again will have a hassle free way to include DRM. The end user won't care as long as they can get their content, but the slippery slope is there, and one day, the web will only contain content that is DRM'ed (and there would be no way of format shifting, or saving the video for offline viewing or sharing). That is not the web I want to see in 5/10 year's time, and the way to stop that is to prevent the cracks from appearing.

It's actively harmful to consumers of content producing companies, but only if those companies do not move to DRM free platforms. But because companies ultimately have to make the user experience smooth, forcing them off DRM like this to make a smooth user experience is worth it in my books.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by lstamour on Saturday July 08, 2017 @02:21AM (#14724371)
Did Netflix ever support iOS devices without an app or DRM? Since iOS 6, there’s been FairPlay DRM available in Safari – and it added support for time-limited (expiring) keys in iOS 9. In many ways, I’m less worried about DRM and more worried about the value of content as expectations change to prefer free stuff from YouTube etc. Making things easy to watch/share is one of the only ways to compete...
Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by Mindwipe on Sunday July 09, 2017 @12:55PM (#14730616)
No, Netflix always used DRM (either via an app or via FairPlay).

The argument has a tiny issue in that it's not actually true. At all.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by cwyers on Saturday July 08, 2017 @03:55AM (#14724585)
> and when apple decides to drop flash support, what happened? Did netflix or any other video content producer suddenly decide to stop supporting those devices? No, they went with html5 video (and at that time, free of DRM). That was a great step forward for DRM free content for the web.

That's a figment of your imagination. They used DRM in an app store app.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by untog on Saturday July 08, 2017 @09:43AM (#14725374)
The answer after Apple dropped Flash support was for everyone to use native iOS apps. This is not a good thing in any way, shape or form.

Imagine if Netflix, Hulu etc. could have used the browser, complete with Chromecast/Airplay support. It would save us all so much wasted phone storage and app downloads.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by Certhas on Saturday July 08, 2017 @10:07AM (#14725446)
Maybe, just _maybe_ that would have been a viable pressure point to favour non-DRM content* if we were all running Firefox.

As it is, too many people decided they are OK with a google browser. The answer to: "It's cumbersome to use DRM" is to tell your consumers to use Chrome.

* I find this highly questionable. We have an abundance of examples of media companies favouring DRM over user experience. Clearly they think a less smooth experience is a price worth paying.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by bostik on Saturday July 08, 2017 @10:33AM (#14725526)
> abundance of examples of media companies favouring DRM over user experience.

I don't think media companies particularly care about user experience. They care about control.

Once you have a piece of content (which you didn't produce) in your hands, and an exclusive distribution contract to guarantee the content producer can't go elsewhere - you have a monopoly over the content in question. DRM is an abhorrent, if natural, extension of this control-freakery. After all, you don't want to provide consumers control over how they view YOUR[0] precious content.

The ingrateful bastards might find a way to enjoy the content without going through the hoops you've carefully put in place. What good would a monopoly be? As the sole content distributor, the last thing you want is competition.

0: Nope, you still didn't produce it. Someone else did. But now you own it.

EDIT: grammar fix in footnote

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by Mindwipe on Sunday July 09, 2017 @12:58PM (#14730625)
> and when apple decides to drop flash support, what happened? Did netflix or any other video content producer suddenly decide to stop supporting those devices? No, they went with html5 video (and at that time, free of DRM). That was a great step forward for DRM free content for the web.

Unambiguously, no, they didn't.

They used applications that had Playready or Adobe Access or Widevine built in, or a little bit later they used Apple FairPlay inside the browser. Some also used root level Apple certificates to limit streams to iOS devices only.

Unambiguously, this argument is factually false.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by librarian42 on Saturday July 08, 2017 @07:55AM (#14725087)
Flash and Silverlight were low friction. And both are deprecated or unavailable on a lot of players now.

Making DRM harder for the end user is the only effective push-back. It worked for music. It's working for e-Books. It would have worked for movies... if it wasn't for this.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by DanBC on Saturday July 08, 2017 @07:56AM (#14725095)
> It's working for e-Books.

How is it working for ebooks, when the leading vendor has introduced more severe DRM?

Re:Tim Berners-Lee approves Web DRM, but W3C members have tw... by Mindwipe on Sunday July 09, 2017 @01:00PM (#14730632)
It didn't work for music either. The industry is now majority distribution via DRM subscription streaming.