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Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by raverbashing on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:31AM (#14710677)
Bohmian mechanics seems like a better explanation than "there are infinite universes out there"
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by jerf on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:46AM (#14710783)
Yes, I find the whole "Explain this in any other way!" sort of a bizarre demand. You've got your choice of 5 or 6 decent isomorphic explanations. Preference for "many worlds" seems to boil down to "it annoys my common sense less than some of the others", which is a very personal concern rather than a scientific one.

Personally, I actually think retrocausality, once you twist your brain around it, is another perfectly sensible option that doesn't involve multiplying the universe into a near-infinity of inaccessible, unobservable parallels. The solution in my mind is that retrocausality actually isn't; what it means instead is that what "the present" is is even less like what you thought it was, and is even more of a partial order than relativity already told us it was. The answer to the "double-slit" experiment, to my mind, is that there simply isn't a "before" and "after" and some sort of "retrocausal self-interference" of the wave... the whole thing is simply one atomic event that doesn't have a before and an after, and your imposition of a temporal order on the events is much simplified from the reality. The mystery lies in your attempt to impose a global temporal order, which is appropriate enough at scale, onto a single local event where it doesn't apply in the way you expect. The results of the double-slit experiment itself is not that mysterious, merely counterintuitive, once you release the small scale from your imposed large-scale idea of how time flows.

It means that "the present" is actually quite complicated in a quantum universe with as many qubits as ours has, but, just as QM may be counterintuitive but eventually looks classical at a large enough scale, time may in fact be massively complicated but at scale it still works as we expect.

Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by ridewinter on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:00AM (#14710897)
It's more of a recognition that many-worlds actually has a physical basis to it, while the others talk about an obfuscated non-physical construction.
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by jerf on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:13AM (#14710998)
"Many worlds has a physical basis to it" has no physics-meaning that I can discern. In order to have one, it would have to deviate from the other isomorphisms and cease to be an isomorphism, and thus somehow be testable, which it isn't. (My previous post is word salad to some extent too, since I'm jamming it into an HN post. But the core insight there is basically, let the math be the math and stop imposing your globally-based ideas on the local world.)

It would have a "physical basis" to it if you could visit the alternatives somehow, in which case they could be demonstrated to physically exist and all doubt would be removed. But so far that is not on offer.

Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by raverbashing on Friday July 07, 2017 @03:51AM (#14716809)
Pretty much. Seems that the "shut up and do the math" QM interpretation is still the important one
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by mr_overalls on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:36AM (#14710711)
"We don't understand the deeper mechanisms yet" is also a valid explanation - although one that's sure to be unpopular with scientists.

"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" and all that.

Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by akvadrako on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:51AM (#14710817)
Bohmian mechanics is just many worlds in denial, for people with prior ontological beliefs they can't give up.

The entire wave-function is there in the theory, containing all the "worlds" and it's responsible for 100% of the dynamics.

Additionally, Bohmians add a single "world particle" indicating which world we are in, and it's guided by the wavefunction. They claim only that particle is "real", but since it has no effect on the state of the universe, I would call it the only part of the theory which isn't real.

Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by ridewinter on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:37AM (#14710720)
I'm sure you could confuse the heck out of me trying to explain it. Deutsch would say it's just a clever obfuscation of what's really happening. And his many-worlds explanation is so incredibly simple that my small mind uses Occam's razor to figure out what to believe.
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by raverbashing on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:00AM (#14710903)
As simple as using God to explain how the universe came to be

It's not about a simple explanation, it's about explaining using simple things.

A wave is simpler than "infinite worlds"

Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by akvadrako on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:07AM (#14710958)
The wavefunction is exactly the same as "infinite worlds". The essential aspect of the Everett / many-worlds view is that the wavefunction is the complete description of reality.

The "worlds" are just approximate ways of slicing up the wavefunction which correspond to our sense of classical reality. They are clearly (and uncontroversially) identifiable if you run a simulation.

Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by raverbashing on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:24AM (#14711091)
Ah that's a better explanation
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by yorwba on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:14AM (#14711011)
The "worlds" are just points in the space that supports the wave. You can use any other name, if you prefer, but there seem to be an infinite number of them.
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by millstone on Thursday July 06, 2017 @06:22PM (#14714433)
All quantum mechanics has notions of "points in space that support the wavefunction," but these are different from the "worlds" in MWI.
Re:Physicists provide support for retrocausal quantum theory by yorwba on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:19PM (#14715773)
Seems like I have been misunderstanding MWI all the time. How are they different?