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Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by eanzenberg on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:18PM (#14672172)
I dunno.. digital music just sounds better, is more consistent, portable, and all around easier to play than vinyl.

Why stop there? Do you also churn your own butter, milk your own cows, shave with a straight razor?

Personally, I think it's just silly hipster bias.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by cheeseprocedure on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:47PM (#14672400)
Due to physical limitations of the medium, mastering the vinyl release of an album is often (usually?) a separate process than mastering the digital version.

One of the consequences is less compression/clipping, better dynamic range, etc. for the vinyl version. This can have a huge positive impact on sound quality.

You don't have to be a nutbar audiophile to appreciate it, either - you can even hear the difference between old rock albums and their heavily compressed re-releases.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-how-does-masterin...

http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/end-loudness-war

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by consto on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:39PM (#14673171)
Maybe decades ago, but I find it hard to imagine any recording studio still having an analogue recording process. Sure the different mediums may call for different mastering, but the loudness war wasn't a result of limitations of tapes/CDs.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by cc439 on Friday June 30, 2017 @06:19PM (#14673904)
You're right in that the loudness war wasn't the result of the limitations of the CD format, it was the result of the newfound capability inherent in the format. The "loudness war" was a continual ratcheting up of dynamic range compression, something easily achieved with a digital representation of the intended soundwave.

The manner in which the album is recorded (analog vs. digital) doesn't matter, it's the limitations of the format for which the master is intended. The physical limitation of a needle tracking a groove measured in microns places a hard limit on the amount of compression which can be applied to the dynamic range. You can't make a needle follow the kind of narrow, jagged, shallow groove that would be the result of using a "loudness wars" era master meant for the CD format.

That said, the number of "got to have it" albums which were caught up in the loudness war isn't enormous. The biggest victims were re-releases of classic rock albums during the 90's but the original records with the true mastering are widely available in the used market. While there are some classic albums begging for a vinyl focused remaster, there aren't too many people clamoring for Limp Bizkit's catalogue to be rereleased without all the trickery employed on the CD master. There are also a ton of garbage "vinyl remasters" out there cashing in on the trend. For example vinyl rerelease of the early Modest Mouse catalogue is just garbage. I seriously think they lied about finding the original masters and just took the CD master and added "crackle and pop" on top to mask the obvious half-assing. That or they used the worst pressing supplier on earth.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by anamexis on Friday June 30, 2017 @06:20PM (#14673909)
The loudness war was directly related to CDs becoming popular.

"...because of the limitations of the vinyl format, loudness and compression on a released recording were restricted to make the physical medium playable—restrictions that do not exist on digital media such as CDs—and as a result, increasing loudness levels never reached the significance that they have in the CD era."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by peatmoss on Friday June 30, 2017 @09:07PM (#14674669)
I've heard that the otherwise snakeoil high-res digital audio recordings tend not to be combatants in the loudness wars.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by cheeseprocedure on Friday June 30, 2017 @10:02PM (#14674902)
Interesting! As much as I loathe the woo around the audiophile industry, I need to learn more about this.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by eanzenberg on Friday June 30, 2017 @02:16PM (#14672639)
I think you'll get way more traction spending $ on better headphones/speakers/audio playing equipment and listening to digital than moving over to a turntable and vinyl collection.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by cc439 on Friday June 30, 2017 @06:21PM (#14673911)
That's true up to a point but there are many classic albums and entire genres (jazz, big band music, beach music/swing music) where the only widely available digital offerings are horrifically mastered.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by hotgoldminer on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:28PM (#14673107)
Depends on whether the music was recorded/mastered using digital or analog equipment.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by treehau5 on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:25PM (#14672225)
Why stop there? Do you write your own libraries, generate your own grammars, go through the logic of your program in your head? Personally, I think it's just silly hacker bias.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ovao on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:34PM (#14672288)
I think there's an argument for doing those things yourself if it's genuinely cheaper or of higher-quality, but you can't realistically make that argument with vinyl.

I think with vinyl people are looking for more of a sense of ownership. It doesn't feel like you own an album, and don't get the feeling that it contributes to some part of you, when you click "save" in Spotify. It doesn't take any effort or any sacrifice (money) to do that, so it comes with no opportunity cost. But buying a record is more deliberate and usually means that your ownership of it comes at the expense of something else you'd instead buy with that money.

I admit it's a pretty wishy-washy argument, but for most people, the prospect of buying a vinyl record has to be rooted in something psychological because objectively speaking there aren't very many good arguments for it.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by skciva on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:46PM (#14672396)
So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias? Does everything have to be about efficiency and logical superiority? People enjoy the experience more and are spending money on it. How horrible.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by Frondo on Friday June 30, 2017 @02:03PM (#14672543)
Agreed. Let people like what they like.

My deal is, that goes both ways. I've owned record players in the past, I've grown a sizeable vinyl collection, and I ended up selling it off because I'm living a much more mobile lifestyle now.

If the OP gets a more "active" experience (whatever that means to them) out of listening to a record instead of putting a CD in a cd player, great, but what bugs me is there's always an undercurrent of "it's better this way".

No, man, you just like it more. It's not "better" than listening to songs on an ipod or putting a CD on.

And all this talk about "it sounds better" or whatever, it all boils down to assigning objective measures to an experience that is, at its core, subjective. No, it's still just your preference. (Some people actually like the analogue tape sound. To them it's "better".)

Let people like what they like.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by skciva on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:28PM (#14673106)
Yeah I think the "it sounds better" argument is silly.

Personally I prefer records for these reasons:

- If I want to share a record with a friend, theres a greater chance they'll just let it play as opposed to a bluetooth connected speaker, where everyone decides they want to be the DJ.

- Having records often starts conversations. Its much more likely someone will see my records or ask to flip through them than say "Hey, can I peruse your Spotify library?"

I like music and it's nice to connect about it without having to force a conversation with everyone I meet.

That being said, I've often thought of living a "mobile" lifestyle like you mention, and if I do records would not be on my list of necessities.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ksk on Friday June 30, 2017 @02:28PM (#14672736)
>So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias?

Yeah, it can seem annoying when someone does that to what you like, but all humans do this at some level. Its same thing as when someone insists that a $7,000 bottle of wine makes you sit down and have a personal experience with the wine, makes you appreciate the weight of the wine, its powerful robust swirling texture, and its assertive character. cue: eye-rolls

>Does everything have to be about efficiency and logical superiority?

No, but I bet you don't consult tarot cards before choosing your next job.

>People enjoy the experience more and are spending money on it. How horrible.

Agreed, leave people alone, people !!

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by skciva on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:15PM (#14673028)
I see your point and won't pretend there isn't an air of pretentiousness surrounding some who purchase records.

I think any hobby will have its fair share of smugness at the top.

Also comparing listening to records as consulting tarot cards is a bit extreme don't you think?

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ksk on Friday June 30, 2017 @06:06PM (#14673842)
>I see your point and won't pretend there isn't an air of pretentiousness surrounding some who purchase records.

I was part of the smug audiophile brigade. Still bitter about buying those $700 headphones!

>Also comparing listening to records as consulting tarot cards is a bit extreme don't you think?

Hehe, yeah maybe a tad bit :)

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by bitJericho on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:25PM (#14672220)
I agree, for sure. That said, there's a lot to be said about listening to an entire album. I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. It's a good mix of Vinyl vs Digital. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio. My setup is designed for involved listening if I want it, and I do that mostly with CDs, rather than records. At the same time, if I want something new, or a cd I don't have, I just put on Spotify. There's no reason why you can't have it all.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ovao on Friday June 30, 2017 @02:11PM (#14672593)
I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio.

Ah, but you don't know! On Beck's Odelay Deluxe Edition release, for example, there are at least two tracks that came from a lossy source.

I don't think it's something that happens often. But through some combination of factors it has happened before, and probably happens more often than people might be aware.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by bitJericho on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:52PM (#14673241)
True. There's also issues with volume and with analog to digital conversions. But even still, almost any cd is better than it's analog equivalent in just about every measure.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ovao on Friday June 30, 2017 @04:45PM (#14673505)
Certainly true. Even some of the earliest CD masters are still very good, relatively. By most standards it took a fairly short amount of time for CD audio to reach a high standard for quality (loudness wars aside).
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by tnecniv on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:44PM (#14672378)
Why not enjoy both? I collect vinyl and listen to digital music all the time. If you buy new vinyls on Amazon, a lot of the time you can get the MP3s for free included.

When I buy a vinyl, it's because it's a physical representation of music that I enjoy. A lot of time, there's a extra items included with the vinyl, like a small poster.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by criddell on Friday June 30, 2017 @02:08PM (#14672577)
I was going to say something about a false dichotomy, but you beat me to it.

Discussions about music on vinyl is always interesting to observe.

Collecting artifacts is such a prevalent part of nerd and geek culture that it's no wonder many of us love to collect and play records.

At the same time, many of us are super focused on efficiency and specifications that listening to less than perfect reproductions where you have to physically manipulate the media makes no sense.

I had a lot of records when I was younger and was happy to move on to CDs and now mp3 and streaming. If I had more space to devote to yet another collection, I would in a heartbeat.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by kasey_junk on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:26PM (#14672239)
I'm not normally considered a hipster and I agree the advantage to vinyl is that it encourages active participation with music (and the art is better).

I consume most of my music digitally essentially in the background but if I want to have a music listening session, alone or with friends, I reach for vinyl.

Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ovao on Friday June 30, 2017 @06:54PM (#14674059)
I wonder though: how would you feel if a digital medium forced the a similar ritual? In other words, if the task you had to perform to get music playing was as involved as putting on a record, would you gain the same sense of satisfaction from it? Or would it just feel contrived?
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by kasey_junk on Friday June 30, 2017 @10:52PM (#14675082)
I'd probably be into it but why? I tend to buy new vinyl that comes with digital download or cheap second hand vinyl. This works for me.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by rquirk on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:53PM (#14672457)
Straight razors are pretty popular still in shaving forums.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by lyime on Friday June 30, 2017 @01:48PM (#14672416)
Yeah, you don't know. I listen to a ton of music that's only released on vinyl. For example, almost all records you find at Yoyako (https://www.yoyaku.io/) are vinyl-only.
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by InclinedPlane on Friday June 30, 2017 @04:31PM (#14673454)
You realize how ridiculous this is right? Why not just plug yourself into a VR headset and eat your meals in pill form?
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by DiNovi on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:36PM (#14673151)
uncompressed digital definitely does; but since most services dont offer that, its not what most people compare against
Re:Sony plans to make vinyl records again by ovao on Friday June 30, 2017 @03:49PM (#14673228)
You'll actually have a very difficult time finding a modern lossy encoder at sane settings that will produce anything worse than what's achievable with a vinyl record. Because modern oversampling D/A converters are also very good, very abundant and very inexpensive, you'll have a similarly difficult time finding a digital playback system that's more poorly-equipped at the task than a purely-analog playback system.

From a purely technical perspective I'll pick a typical lossy file over vinyl every single time.