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Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by davidw on Monday June 26, 2017 @12:58PM (#14638296)
I find this to be credible - at some level, it'll certainly hurt. The problem as I see it is that some people say "aha, see, that doesn't work", but then stop there. There is a real problem in that some people (not all who make minimum wage, and not only those who make minimum wage) have real problems making ends meet. What's the best way to help them?
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by dtehranian on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:14PM (#14638474)
Many have trouble making ends-meat because they lack skills that the market will pay for. Long term solution: Get more people skills that employers will pay for.

Another solution to help low wage/low skilled workers, is a negative tax rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by bradleyjg on Monday June 26, 2017 @02:06PM (#14638922)
The problem with a negative income tax, especially when coupled with many other means tested programs at the state and federal level, is that you create a situation where there are very high effective marginal tax rates. Sometimes even exceeding 100%.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by thehardsphere on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:06PM (#14638373)
Don't take away the only entry point to employment in the economy that those people have until we actually have a good answer to that question.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by davidw on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:15PM (#14638490)
Part of my point is that some people very loudly point out the flaws of minimum wages - and they have some valid arguments - but them seem to hem and haw a lot about finding better solutions for that subset of people who are in real trouble.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by thehardsphere on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:23PM (#14638579)
And my point is that, it is fine to want to help people, but doing something that clearly hurts them is not the right way to do that.

Maybe those better solutions have the same dynamics. Economics is all about trade-offs; many of them are hard to evaluate and some of them are not worth making. Minimum Wage increases to $15/hour seem more and more to be not worth making.

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by topmonk on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @06:49AM (#14644064)
I think whether this hurts people, at least in the long run, depends, though.

Taking a job which provides no on-the-job training, and takes no skill keeps someone where they are. Because they aren't learning anything they are stuck doing jobs at this level forever.

If a person is prodded into learning a skill in order to reach the bottom($15/hour) rung, and then at the $15/hour level, the person is doing skilled work, they will be defacto receiving on-the-job training, since they are providing some skill.

As long as there is a big enough social safety net, and access to resources like the library and the internet, unskilled and unemployed people will at least have the opportunity and a motive to learn.

It's really too early to tell whether a higher minimum wage will result in a more skilled, educated populous in the long run. But it does fit the data that most (all?) first world countries have a relatively high minimum wage and social safety net. It could be argued that a high minimum wage is partly how they got there.

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by thehardsphere on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @11:48AM (#14646486)
1. Not all first world countries have minimum wages. Scandinavia is an example of an entire region that doesn’t have them, yet still has generous safety nets.

2. The assumption that minimum wage jobs are dead-end by default is decidedly not true. Even the most menial minimum wage job provides people with employment history, which is very important for the poorest people in society to establish in order to get other jobs.

3. The logic here assumes that everyone who is displaced by the high minimum wage is capable of becoming a higher skill worker as long as their current employment opportunities are taken away from them. This is may be true for teenagers who are still in school. This is very much not true for all sorts of other minimum wage workers. Such as:

* Old people who are working to get a little extra money during their retirement.

* Single mothers, who often choose to take lower-paid work because many jobs have more flexible scheduling.

* People who have already been displaced from another high-skill job mid-career and have no where else to go to make ends meet (e.g. factory workers).

* People with disabilities that prevent them from pursuing high skill work.

4. The logic here also assumes that, even if someone does improve their skills, that there are enough high skill jobs that exist to employ all of these people. Higher skilled workers tend to be more productive than lower skilled workers, which in turn often means there are fewer high skilled jobs available than lower skilled jobs.

5. The problem with a large social safety net is that it acts as an alternative to working. You might find that trade-off to be acceptable, but you need to be aware that the likely choice many people will make isn't going to be to go to their local lending library to learn Javascript; it's going to be to stay home and not work. It's not because they're lazy or whatever people say; it's because the structure of the benefits incentivizes not-working over working for $X/hour or $Y/year. The values for X and Y go up when the safety net becomes more generous.

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by tim333 on Monday June 26, 2017 @03:25PM (#14639527)
Dunno the best way but there are a lot of things that can be done and have been tried in various countries. Negative income tax, free healthcare and education, social or subsidised housing and so on. Maybe in the future basic income will be a thing.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by ithinkinstereo on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:01PM (#14638325)
Increase social services funding by taxing the rich and closing tax-dodging loopholes (like capital gains, etc.).
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by Stanleyc23 on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:10PM (#14638413)
can you elaborate on this capital gains tax loophole?
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by dragonwriter on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:13PM (#14638451)
Long-term capital gains are taxed lower than normal generic income (at rates lower than the same person would pay in income tax) which in turn taxed lower than labor income (which is, in addition to regular income tax, subject to payroll tax.)

Closing the capital gains tax loophole is, presumably, a reference to stopping some or all of this favorable treatment.

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by WalterBright on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:23PM (#14638576)
It's less of a loophole than one might think, because much of long term capital gains is illusory due to inflation.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by thehardsphere on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:22PM (#14638558)
1. That's not a "loophole", it's a deliberate feature of tax law.

2. Changing that would not do anything to solve this problem (even if you think it should be solved through more government spending, it wouldn't raise much money)

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by Veelox on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:24PM (#14638587)
Just to make sure I understand you, you are advocating counting long-term capital gains as ordinary income?
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by dragonwriter on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:28PM (#14638637)
I'm explaining what it is likely the upthread poster was referring to when talking about closing the capital gains tax loophole, not advocating anything.

(I have advocated better aligning the treatment of capital, labor, and generic other income, but the details involve more than just counting long-term capital gains as ordinary income.)

Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by Veelox on Monday June 26, 2017 @02:07PM (#14638930)
I missed that you were filling in for someone else, thank you for the explanation.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by miguelrochefort on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:22PM (#14638555)
People really need to be more frugal.
Re:A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage... by bradleyjg on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:01PM (#14638326)
A UBI.