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Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by tptacek on Sunday June 25, 2017 @07:42PM (#14632884)
We should rename the profession. "Nurse" is gendered, but also poorly captures the responsibilities of the modern nursing profession.

It is batshit crazy that our first line of medical care in the US is medical doctors. For 80% of what ordinary people see doctors for, Nurse Practitioners are superior to doctors: they're more available, can spend more time with patients, and can more easily escalate cases to doctors or specialists than the patients themselves can.

What would make a lot of sense to me would be to rename "Nurse Practitioners" to "Associate Doctors".

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by boobsbr on Monday June 26, 2017 @04:00AM (#14634898)
> We should rename the profession. "Nurse" is gendered

In Brazil, there are TONS of male nurses working in hospitals, and there is not stigma at all to name of the profession (at least from my various experiences with hospitals and ERs).

The fact that Portuguese has declension to indicate gender in this particular word ('enfermeiro' is male, 'enfermeira' is female) might play a role in this.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by solatic on Monday June 26, 2017 @01:04AM (#14634220)
To put it in more tech-industry terms, doctors are either Level 2 (general practitioners) or Level 3 (specialists) health support. Adding more low-cost Level 1 health support is a great way to reduce the workloads of L2 and L3 and thus both reduce costs throughout the system as well as improve outcomes for most ~customers~ patients.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by 0xbear on Monday June 26, 2017 @02:54AM (#14634631)
Except of course no one in this system is interested in reducing costs.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by flukus on Monday June 26, 2017 @03:39AM (#14634810)
The patients, governments and private insurers are all interested in it I assume. Personally I'm more interested in increasing availability, when I need a medical certificate for a cold it's a huge pain to try and book a doctor. And then 99% of my interactions are watching them fill in paperwork and take my blood pressure, something we already rely on nurses for in hospitals.

I don't know if it will get anywhere though, doctors have a powerful union.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by 0xbear on Monday June 26, 2017 @03:55AM (#14634870)
Government is interested in whatever their donors tell them to be interested in. That's why ACA is a trillion dollar giveaway to healthcare industry instead of net savings.

ACA also disincentives private insurers from wanting to reduce cost. Their profit is now limited to a certain percentage of the premiums, so naturally their only real way to profit is by raising the living shit out of the premiums.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by flukus on Monday June 26, 2017 @07:08AM (#14635799)
Things weren't heading that way before the ACA and they aren't heading there anywhere else in the western world.

Whatever problems you have with the ACA, it's not the cause here.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by 0xbear on Monday June 26, 2017 @12:59PM (#14638307)
I didn't say it was the cause. The cause is that the congressmen/women will sell their mom for a buck.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by inopinatus on Monday June 26, 2017 @07:12AM (#14635815)
Sorry to burst your bubble: this works in the tech industry because the impact of a bad judgment call at L1 is not the death of a human being.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by solatic on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:24AM (#14637502)
And nobody's saying that L1 health support should be uneducated (no dedicated schooling), unaided (no need for patient records indicating allergies etc.), or all-powerful (including, say, the ability to prescribe powerful doses). The argument is that there's plenty of room for people who went through a (significant) fraction of the time it takes to complete traditional medical school to earn a (significant) fraction of a doctor's earnings in order to reduce overall system costs and improve overall availability of care.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by inopinatus on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:41PM (#14640619)
That argument comes from the wrong direction. It may indeed reduce system costs and improve overall availability, but those things are crippled by the commercial construction of US healthcare not the expense of doctors salaries.

Fix that by adopting healthcare systems from overseas, rather than increasing the mortality rate.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by flukus on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:26PM (#14642365)
Countries with socialized healthcare are facing the same issue, ballooning healthcare costs, just less acutely.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by inopinatus on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @01:13AM (#14642731)
That is wrong. For example, the UK's cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP is actually declining.

The US has double the healthcare expenditure by %age of GDP vs comparable nations such as the UK or Australia, and this order-of-magnitude difference is entirely explainable as systematic inefficiencies of the insurance-led market and uncontrolled drug pricing. All that cost - and it doesn't even cover everyone.

Future generations will study the basket case that is today's US non-single-payer insurance system and write it up under chapter titles like "What the hell were they thinking" and "How not to do it".

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by inopinatus on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:59AM (#14635756)
The remaining XX% (I dispute your claimed 80%, it sounds fabricated) is why so-called "nurse practitioners" must not act as though they are front-line doctors. These people have too high an opinion of their medical qualifications. What you propose will increase mortality rates due to incorrect diagnosis of serious conditions. That is entirely unacceptable.

That suggestion of "Associate doctors" is a travesty that would simply further confuse a public already beset by snake oil salesmen and the false hope of "alternative".

What you are asking for - what you have listed as the positive outcomes - is properly handled by a patient advocate. These are rare today, I would see it grow as a profession.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by maxerickson on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:11AM (#14637409)
What you are asking for - what you have listed as the positive outcomes - is properly handled by a patient advocate. These are rare today, I would see it grow as a profession.

I wonder if there is a way to structure payments such that doctors fill this role. It would be convenient if their incentives were so well aligned with patient interests.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by inopinatus on Monday June 26, 2017 @05:43PM (#14640631)
It'd be yet another aspect of a healthcare system that gets hijacked by commercial interests, which is already the principal reason that US healthcare costs 17% of GDP when other countries deliver equal quality for 9%.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by maxerickson on Monday June 26, 2017 @10:46PM (#14642209)
Are you talking about patient advocates getting hijacked or about properly structured payments getting hijacked?
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by inopinatus on Monday June 26, 2017 @11:15PM (#14642321)
I'm saying there is no payment structure you can a) devise and b) implement, without inadvertently creating a whole secondary financial sector to exploit and debase it. The word "properly" cannot attach.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by Khaine on Monday June 26, 2017 @10:50AM (#14637216)
We should absolutely not rename the profession. All it does it put it the title on the euphemism treadmill[1]. Instead we should look to break down sterotypes through positive role models and portrayal in the media.

[1] http://englishcowpath.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/euphemism-trea...

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by imartin2k on Monday June 26, 2017 @02:36AM (#14634550)
"Associate Doctors" - seriously a brilliant idea in my eyes.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by mythrwy on Sunday June 25, 2017 @08:01PM (#14632949)
How about "Flesh Mechanics"?

That might get a man or two interested. "Nurse" has mammary overtones.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by majewsky on Monday June 26, 2017 @06:47AM (#14635698)
That phrase is quite demeaning to the nurses' subjects, which is probably why you're being downvoted.
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by mythrwy on Monday June 26, 2017 @12:31PM (#14638024)
Understandable and no complaints, down-votes taken with a smile and not personally.

I don't understand your point about "demeaning" though.

Are you saying calling people under nurses care "flesh" is demeaning? Or saying the word "Nurse" has mammary overtones (it does, and I assume some sort of common root) is demeaning?

I would have down-voted the comment for being dumb rather than demeaning (admittedly it is kind of a dumb comment).

Just struggling to understand demeaning here because I'm not the kind of persons who wants to demean so maybe I should know something I don't.

Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by majewsky on Monday June 26, 2017 @12:54PM (#14638251)
The flesh part. It makes it sound like humans are just a pile of flesh. (And please don't make this into a philosophical debate about whether that captures the human condition because this is clearly not the point.)
Re:Men Don’t Want to Be Nurses. Their Wives Agree by mythrwy on Monday June 26, 2017 @02:48PM (#14639228)
No, no debate. Thanks for the feedback and clarification.