Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid, scientists say

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by matt_heimer on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @11:38AM (#14595425)

So you want priority queuing for power consumption. I understand it would be able to eliminate some spikes for my individual house but my overall usage doesn't go down. The article is really about the grid and not an individual house. If every house in my town had priority queuing would the hourly consumption really change? Maybe that last dryer or dishwasher load of the night could be time shifted but you can only delay refrigeration or clothes washing so long withing either spoilage or killing your throughput.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by greglindahl on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @12:02PM (#14595696)

Yes, smart grids can really change hourly consumption. As an example, imagine a world where 1/3 of the cars are electric, and they're long-range cars like the Bolt or Tesla, which only need to be charged every couple of days, not all of the time. A system that looks at the solar/wind forecast and charges your car at the right time can make a huge improvement to the grid on a time-scale of days.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by twothamendment on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @12:23PM (#14595916)

I still find "long-range" electric vehicles to be an oxymoron. A Bolt @ 75 mph can only make it 190 miles. I'm not sure that is enough to get me to a qualified mechanic and back and it sure doesn't compare to the nearly 500+ miles I get on fuel. I can't afford to drop $30,000 on a car that I can't take on a road trip.

I think the progress made on electric cars is exciting to watch, but I have to laugh when they talk about "long-range".

http://insideevs.com/instrumented-test-of-chevrolet-bolt-190...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by vkou on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @01:08PM (#14596370)

Even with superchargers, electric vehicles are an incredibly poor choice for road trips. Most driving is not road trips, though. In fact, the overwhelming majority of driving is not road trips.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by greglindahl on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @01:52PM (#14596854)

So you're saying that people who think that EVs are a good choice for themselves because they own one and do road trips in one... are actually wrong?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by vkou on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @04:22PM (#14598254)

People own all sorts of things that don't work well for them. Hell, that's pretty much the justification for the entire high-end audio industry.

Objectively speaking, long distance driving is a pain in the ass for an EV. I take a lot of Seattle -> BC trips. I drive to Whistler, Anmore, Kelowna, and Salmon Arm.

I can't do some of those trips on one charge - they are too far. That 238 mile range on the Bolt? You are not going to go 238 miles on the Coquihalla. It's all mountains, and in good weather, the speed of traffic is 80-90 mph. You'll be lucky if you get 150 miles.

And heaven forbid you have to turn around at the 100 mile mark. You'll be calling a tow truck, because you won't be getting back to civilization on a two-thirds drained battery.

Meanwhile, my Prius goes from Seattle to Salmon Arm on one tank of gas. But let's suppose it's winter, and I want to be safe, and I don't want to be sitting on the curb with my thumb in the air, praying that someone on the road has a full jerry can (The odds of which are pretty high) - so I'll stop for some.

When I stop for gas, my total time at the pump is 7 minutes - including pulling off the freeway, and back on.

With an EV? Well, if you want to top up at a super-charger... You're looking for a 40-50 minute wait. Every 2-3 hours of driving. Because the one thing that I'm looking forward to, on my long trips, is wasting more time on a 7 hour drive.

If you have kids or a dog, you may want that hour-long break. I don't, though.

There's a lot that can be said for EVs - I might own one, if I could charge it at my apartment. I wouldn't use it for road trips, though.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by greglindahl on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @04:41PM (#14598417)

Huh. Well, I guess you know best, and Tesla owners who do long trips are all wrong.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by greglindahl on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @12:31PM (#14596005)

You're getting off-topic, but, Tesla owners take road trips using the Supercharger network all of the time. Instead of focusing on your personal preferences, maybe you could also take a look at the actual behavior of early adopters?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by twothamendment on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @01:23PM (#14596510)

I think the progress on EVs are amazing - I was poking fun at "long-range".

It is more about my personal situation than preference. I can't drive a Tesla from my house to a Supercharger station. I'd have take a slow charge somewhere - or a tow truck. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that situation. So for me and many others "long-range" continues to be an oxymoron. Someday range will increase and I'll have to decide if it makes sense for me or not - but it this point it isn't even a possibility. Until long-range means keeping up with an average gas/diesel car, it isn't long enough for many.

Tesla is much more likely to be able to sell me a power wall than a car. I could use one or two of those.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Storage ‘not fundamentally needed’ for future power grid,... by jameshart on Tuesday June 20, 2017 @06:34PM (#14599156)

Regarding "I can't drive a Tesla from my house to a Supercharger station. I'd have take a slow charge somewhere - or a tow truck. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that situation."

If you're located in the lower 48 states of the US, you're definitely one of a very, very small number of people in that situation - the map on https://www.tesla.com/supercharger claims they've pretty much got the map covered these days - though Hawaii and Alaska are out of luck. It looks like North Dakota might still be underserved right now, but pretty much everywhere is within a couple of hundred miles of a station.

Fact is, though, that a vanishingly small number of people are living in places that far from charging infrastructure, mechanics, or frankly, the places they need to drive to regularly.

[ Parent | on HN ]