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Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by yulaow on Monday June 12, 2017 @08:36AM (#14536773)
I don't understand these comments. I lived in Italy for a long time, with high quality public healthcare for everyone even in a country which is not doing so well economically after the financial crisis. Yes, if you have something not risky you have wait-times for exams of 1-3 weeks (even here you can go private if you want and I assure you costs are BY FAR lower than in the US... like a full low abd eco costed me 40e to have it done in the next hour, just because I had to travel), but if you have ANYTHING risky there is no wait time, you get your exams and surgeries asap the same day if needed. The system works that well exactly because is not the amount you pay that put you in the front of the list, but the seriousness of your condition after the first medical evaluations.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by TuringTest on Monday June 12, 2017 @08:57AM (#14536959)
> I don't understand these comments.

It's cognitive dissonance. They have not experienced a quality public health care first hand, so they cannot admit that it works without contradicting their core economical beliefs.

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by JoeAltmaier on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:00AM (#14536987)
I get sick; I go to my doctor today and get treated. A system that makes me wait for weeks for something 'not serious' meaning almost everything, is a broken system. Sure it costs less in Europe etc; its not doing anything useful. Id've gotten better (or died) on my own by the time I got seen with wait times like that.

It's not cognitive dissonance (unless on the part of public-health-is-better folks). Its a different metric. If cost is the only measure, then sure, 3 week wait for a free aspirin is 'good'. If its timeliness, then other systems win hands down.

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by pjc50 on Monday June 12, 2017 @10:31AM (#14537641)
I should point out that the private option exists in the UK as well, if you have money and don't want to wait. And of course there's a normal range of OTC drugs including aspirin - unless you're in Scotland it's cheaper to buy it yourself than pay the £7 flat prescription charge.

NHS triage is pretty effective: stuff that might actually kill you gets seen to immediately. Chronic conditions get managed long-term. The vast majority of the long waits are for things like hip operations, which will improve quality of life but aren't particularly urgent.

The US system is not without waits: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/sunday-review/long-waits-...

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by TuringTest on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:05AM (#14537027)
What is more broken: a system where everyone has to wait some weeks and get attended, or one where some can be atended in a day, and others will never be attended?
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by killmeslowlyjnj on Monday June 12, 2017 @07:20PM (#14541915)
> What is more broken: a system where everyone has to wait some weeks and get attended, or one where some can be atended in a day, and others will never be attended?

The latter.

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by JoeAltmaier on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:08AM (#14537041)
By what metric are we measuring? Total healthcare delivered in a timely fashion? Then the system that delivers at least some timely care wins again.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by TuringTest on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:40AM (#14537259)
Not if all urgent healthcare is delivered to all in a timely manner, and it's only non-urgent healthcare which gets delays.

In this case, the system which can get urgent attendance to all users wins over the one which does it only for a subset, even in terms of timeliness.

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by JoeAltmaier on Monday June 12, 2017 @09:54AM (#14537367)
Urgent care is a fair metric.

A system than turns non-urgent care (a cold or the flu) into urgent care (pneumonia) is going to 'stuff the ballot box' in its favor however.

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by TuringTest on Monday June 12, 2017 @10:26AM (#14537611)
If you were to live the rest of your life with a new healthcare system, which of the following would you prefer?

- a) one where you would be randomly assigned to one of two groups: one which gets timely attendance for urgent and non-urgent needs; and the other one which gets no attendance at all, of any kind.

- b) one where all users get attended with an equal 3 weeks delay for non-urgent needs, and 0 delay for urgent needs.

Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by eeZah7Ux on Monday June 12, 2017 @10:48AM (#14537771)
Nonsense - triaging and urgency prioritization is used in medicine everywhere in the world since centuries.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday June 13, 2017 @11:18AM (#14545403)
But with 'private health' I can pay and go to a doctor today. For a cold or whatever. Its a curious fact the 'public health' equates to 'rationed medicine'.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by TuringTest on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @06:58AM (#14551852)
Lucky you. There are some who need to skip several meals to go to a doctor.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday June 14, 2017 @10:37AM (#14553024)
...and that's an interesting problem. I maintain the solution is not to try to give it away free to everybody. Because that fails in major ways, as we've discussed.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by TuringTest on Thursday June 15, 2017 @06:53AM (#14559241)
It works quite well in most countries in Europe. I've heard that it's way better than the US system for a majority of people, except for some revolutionary treatments that reach only a really small amount of uber-rich users.
Re:Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich by miguelrochefort on Monday June 12, 2017 @08:56AM (#14536950)
Public healthcare differs a lot between countries.

> if you have something not risky you have wait-times for exams of 1-3 weeks

In Canada that's closer to 3-6 months.

> if you have ANYTHING risky there is no wait time, you get your exams and surgeries asap the same day if needed

In Canada, average wait times in emergency rooms are 20+ hours.