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Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by omegaworks on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:13PM (#14491324)
How do you plan on balancing this overly strict definition of value with a sustainable model of funding (critically necessary) investigative journalism? All this helps is the proliferation of ideology-reinforcing propaganda and clickbait. Are we going to shut out real, substantial content from the online space?

The commoditization of search can't come soon enough. Google shouldn't be able to monopolize this space.

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by rfrank on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:20PM (#14491441)
That's WSJ's job to figure out, not search providers. From google's perspective, a search which leads users to a page that doesn't load, which the user immediately abandons, is a bad result. WSJ isn't entitle to traffic because they're an old organization.
Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by omegaworks on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:29PM (#14491584)
It's not about "entitlement" it's about the structural incentives put in place by the online media playing field.

To go out in the streets and talk to people, dig deep into obfuscated government archives, and actually make sense of the world takes real work. It's often work that results in content that isn't always just what their readers want to see.

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by rfrank on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:39PM (#14491725)
None of that influences the way Google's spiders see their site, bad results are bad results. WSJ could leave their content freely available and sell banner ads, vs. locking themselves into the subscription model they're familiar with. It's not Google's fault WSJ doesn't want to change.
Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by dragonwriter on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @02:36AM (#14495217)
Or they could seek patronage without a paywall, like the Guardian. If they want subscriber exclusivity, they shouldn't be surprised that search engines serving people that are mostly not WSJ subscribers rank their content based on what is visible to non-subscribers.
Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by CamperBob2 on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:25PM (#14492253)
It's entitled to traffic because it puts in work.

That's not how it works.

That's not how anything in life works.

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by dragonwriter on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:02PM (#14492011)
> How do you plan on balancing this overly strict definition of value with a sustainable model of funding (critically necessary) investigative journalism?

Allow people interested in paying for content to pay for content, and then use the discovery mechanisms the content owner makes availlable for that content.

If the content owner wants to promote content that isn't available to the general public via search engines, they can buy search ads like anyone else.

They don't need a subsidy at Google's​ (and, in terms of time, Google users') expense by way of organic search results for content that most search users will not be able to access when they click the result.

> The commoditization of search can't come soon enough. Google shouldn't be able to monopolize this space.

Commoditization of search (which means heavy competition focussed on minimizing costs) isn't going to make it any more likely that competing public search providers are going to subsidize paywalled content that their users can't use.

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by rdiddly on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:22PM (#14491487)
So the implication then, is that real & substantial content comes from those who get paid, and ideology-reinforcing propaganda and clickbait come from those who don't?

Are you sure it's true? Are you sure it's not the opposite? Could either or both be true?

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by omegaworks on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:53PM (#14491902)
Substantial content takes more work to produce then clickbait.

We must critically examine the structural incentives we put in place that support shallow outrage porn over deep, well-sourced, investigative journalism.

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by lordCarbonFiber on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:24PM (#14491510)
The problem is that is false. Ads (and the click bait they encourage) certainly is a monetization strategy; but to suggest it's either free rubish or paywalled quality is patently false. Ignoring completely state sponsored media (NPR, BBC, etc), groups like News Deeply [0] offer proof by contradiction to your assumption.

Killing search isn't going to add more "real", "substantial" content online.

[0] https://www.newsdeeply.com/

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by dragonwriter on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @02:43AM (#14495253)
NPR isn't anywhere close to "completely state sponsored media"; NPR gets basically no direct government funding, what it does get is indirect through its member stations, who get less from government than from corporate sponsors, and less from sponsors than listener donations.
Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by omegaworks on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:43PM (#14491774)
Please don't frame your response as a logical argument while ignoring the ambiguity introduced by your use of "that" to refer to my entire statement.

Without good search, there's a discovery problem. How will people find quality content easily? Where'd you get "killing search?" Search clearly provides value.

Re:WSJ Ends Google Users' Free Ride, Then Fades in Search Re... by roguecoder on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:56PM (#14491944)
If the monetization strategy is, as WSJ, to make their content inaccessible, it is them shutting themselves out of online spaces, not Google. Walled gardens break the web.