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Re:Trickle-down workaholism in startups by davidivadavid on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @03:48PM (#14447985)
I don't necessarily disagree with DHH's points, but most of his stuff comes across as completely oblivious to the fact he's not representative of the average startuper/developer. He's a complete outlier.

Sure, you can succeed if you're a top 0.1% programmer, and you don't have to work as much as other people. Do other people who are ambitious but not quite as talented have the same luxury?

Re:Trickle-down workaholism in startups by Daishiman on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @06:08PM (#14448951)
Can you afford to not work at the peak of your intellect?

I tried the whole busting ass thing in my early years as a freelancer. I bombed, my output went down with no correlation to working hours whatsoever, I developed obvious markers for anxiety and it took years to get away from that.

Maybe if your job consists of answer dumb emails every day, but there's indeed a very limited number of productive, concentrated work you can get done during the day.

Most of the people who claim to work excessive amounts of overtime waste a humongous amount of time on meetings, confirmations, transportation and phone calls. If anything, they might have a mission and purpose that helps them stay up.

But to pretend that you can crank out code like a machine all day every day is the biggest greatest farce of our profession.

Re:Trickle-down workaholism in startups by s73ver on Wednesday May 31, 2017 @01:14PM (#14454165)
Well, given that, in the vast majority of cases, busting your ass for a startup doesn't get you anything (either the company still fails, or your equity gets dilluted to shit and you lose money compared to what you would have had working a normal job with normal hours over that time period), even if you're not a "top programmer", it doesn't make sense.
Re:Trickle-down workaholism in startups by walterra on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @06:16PM (#14448992)
I think the more common ground here is that _all_ very successful people are outliers regardless if they work "hard" or not.
Re:Trickle-down workaholism in startups by davidivadavid on Tuesday May 30, 2017 @07:24PM (#14449390)
That may be that case, but the more relevant question is whether non-outliers can benefit from hard work. DHH says no (because he's a biased outlier, in my opinion). I would say it's far from clear.