News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by microcolonel on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @08:18PM (#14414472)
Lots of people start GPU companies, the limitation is entirely the high quality bar set by the three desktop competitors. NVIDIA is taking their quality advantage and slowly adapting it to the embedded space.

Literally anyone with a couple million dollars can put together an ASIC design team in a matter of months, design a functioning GLES2 GPU which gets acceptable performance, phone up a semiconductor manufacturer, and pay them about half the money to open a run for them. But even for that low bar, there is already an economic advantage to licensing somebody else's chip. When you start getting to higher feature levels and higher performance targets, the amount of real work required to design GPUs is considerably higher.

That said, if you have a few billion dollars to pour into an R&D effort, you can definitely open up a GPU shop, and no GPU mafia is going to be able to stop you.

Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by danjoc on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @08:41PM (#14414566)
Apple is starting it's own GPU production. They immediately were sued by their former suppliers Imagination Technology over intellectual property rights. The gall of them. Nevermind that Apple has yet to produce anything, Imagination is suing them on the premise that it is impossible for Apple to build a GPU without infringing their rights, somehow.

Apple may win in the end, it's capital vs capital. A small startup trying to steal away that Apple contract from Imagination with a innovative incredible product though; They'd be properly crushed into dust for even dreaming about it.

Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by DominikD on Thursday May 25, 2017 @02:34AM (#14415662)
This is absolutely not what happened and a completely flawed analogy. One: there's talks, not lawsuit. Two: Apple claims it did clean room implementation w/o providing any proof. Apple could hire a third party to assess that w/o any risk of leaking anything to Imagination but decided not to. Because they're Apple and they can. Three: they have the upper hand here in terms of monies that they can spend. So it's not like they're this small boy strongarmed by a bully.
Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by danjoc on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:39PM (#14419984)
>So it's not like they're this small boy strongarmed by a bully.

I agree with all three of your points. Let me take a different tack to see if this makes my point more clear. Apple sued Samsung over rounded corners. The gall of them. As if anyone can own the concept of rounded corners.

Apple shouldn't be allowed to prevent other companies from building phones with rounded corner designs.

Imagination shouldn't be allowed to prevent other companies from building phones with GPU designs.

Clearly, both things happen. There are lots of phones now with rounded corners. Lots of phones with GPUs. But well placed litigation can hobble your nearest competitor or destroy a small one. The result is massive losses of productivity that could have enriched society.

All this thanks to the Capitalist idea that someone can own rounded corners or GPU designs simply because they have the most money. Capitalism rewards those with capital, not those who work hard and add value to society. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, but contributing to society is not a requirement and frequently does not occur.

Theoretically, a single super capitalist or small group of them could corner the market on everything and be rewarded for no other reason beyond ownership. Together, they could stop all progress. With companies like Apple sitting on $200,000,000,000 overseas, but failing to ship a new "pro" desktop since 4 years ago, this theoretical situation looks a lot more real every day.

Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by angus-prune on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:13AM (#14416566)
Apple have also hired many senior Imagination engineers and employees over the last few years.

From Imagination's perspective, rather than changing to different technology, Apple are trying to reimplement Imagination's technology, with ex-Imagination engineers, without paying them.

Whether Imagination are right about this or not, I don't think this is a clear cut case of patent bullying.

Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by dogma1138 on Wednesday May 24, 2017 @08:34PM (#14414534)
Good luck designing a GPU without violating NVIDIAs or AMD patents. Heck AMD technically owns the patent for an in memory framebuffer ;)
Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by microcolonel on Thursday May 25, 2017 @04:39AM (#14416063)
There's no way a patent on the general idea of an in-memory framebuffer would still be valid today, there was prior art for that in the early '80s, and it's been well over 20 years since the '80s (the earliest they could conceivably have applied for a patent on that).
Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by dogma1138 on Thursday May 25, 2017 @12:22PM (#14418271)
Well they have patented a modern back/front buffer setup which is what used in virtually every GPU today http://www.google.com/patents/US20020113786

They also hold the patents on simulating physics on a GPU and a billion other patents.

Same goes for NVIDIA.

AMD and NVIDIA violate each other's patents all day long and many more they don't sue each other since that would be a legal balckhole for both companies.

But they will we very keen on sueing any new player.

Intel licenses a patent portfolio from NVIDIA currently for legal protections, and Samsung and Qualcomm license their GPU IP from AMD.

Re:SoftBank Takes $4B Stake in Nvidia by stanfordkid on Thursday May 25, 2017 @01:59AM (#14415559)
Totally agree. I think the parent comment was a little heavy-handed in implying that large technology companies like NVidia are anti-competitive via political and or legal means. There certainly are markets that have these qualities... but chip manufacturing is not one of them.

The economies of scale and necessary R&D investment needed to be competitive are the primary things preventing new upstarts from making an impact. This is because the industry has matured.