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Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by int_19h on Monday May 22, 2017 @10:52PM (#14398471)
"Useless" is highly subjective when you don't have enough information to render accurate judgment. But this is not the case that we're talking about.

Consider this simplified case. I hire you to sweep the floors in my apartment, and I pay you by the hour. I have a vacuum cleaner, but I don't offer it to you, because then you'd have done the job much sooner, and would be paid less - and I want to pay you more.

Do you see the absurdity in this arrangement? I hope it's fairly obvious. The moral choice in this case is, of course, to let you use the vacuum cleaner, but pay you the same amount as for manual sweeping (minus any amortization costs for the cleaner). I don't lose anything this way, since I've parted with the same amount of money. You have gained, because you've got the same money for less back-breaking work - and now you can either enjoy some extra rest, or perhaps go clean someone else's house and earn more money.

The difference in amount of work you performed in the first case vs the second case is the "useless work" here - and there's nothing subjective about it.

The difference in amount of money paid for a manual sweep and for vacuuming, if you were paid at the same rate for both, is the welfare, because I didn't have to pay you more than the market price of the hour of your work.

Note, I do not consider the term "welfare" to be in any way negative. I just wish we recognized it for what it is, and consciously designed our economic policies around it, instead of pretending that it's something else - in this case, by forcing people to do useless work for it just to satisfy our sense of "propriety" (that they shouldn't "get it for free").

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by eeZah7Ux on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @10:05AM (#14401251)
> I have a vacuum cleaner, but I don't offer it to you, because then you'd have done the job much sooner

In a way, this applies to most software work. While each company is just trying to survive, the world is rewriting hundreds of thousands of ERP, CRM, databases, OSes, libraries...

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by jfoutz on Monday May 22, 2017 @11:53PM (#14398682)
Incidentally, what kind of vacuum do you have? I've gone through a few permutations, and nothing that sucks seems to really compare to a good sweeping. Roomba to Rainbow, it just doesn't pull up the dust the same way. To be fair, the broom leaves a lot of stuff behind, it seems like mopping phase is when stuff gets really clean.

But, uh, seriously, what kind of vacuum is it?

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by Moru on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @01:40AM (#14399038)
The vacuums have to blow out air too, and this stirs the dust you didn't vacuum yet. As soon as you are done this starts settling again. If you sweep the floor instead, with moist or antistatic cloth, you get most of it and it does not just resettle.

Back on topic I think many people that goes to higher education does not valuate the work of people that clean or do other manual laybour. I have done quite a few different jobs like cleaning, transport and servicing machines and it differs a lot between workplaces how much you feel appreciated. A school for example would not be able to stay open if noone was sweeping the floors every day...

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by Mister_Snuggles on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @12:53AM (#14398886)
Not the person you asked, but Miele is worth a look.

I've got a C3, which I mainly bought to keep the pet hair and allergens under control. My only regret is that I don't vacuum nearly often enough.

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by int_19h on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @06:06AM (#14400081)
A canister Kenmore. In my experience, fancy vacuums are more trouble than they're worth.
Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @12:03AM (#14398717)
Have you tried a Dyson?
Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by jfoutz on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @12:13AM (#14398752)
Actually, no. I've tried a couple bagless vacs, they're great on carpet. On a hard floor edges and wierd ridges and valleys seem to always get missed. Sweeping always seems faster when I have to screw around with special cases. Although I'm shooting for clean. Not pseudo clean.

I will do some research on dyson though.

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by emilburzo on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @12:58AM (#14398898)
I don't know where you are, but if they're available, I highly recommend a Karcher vacuum (I have the WD5).

(As long as you don't have small carpets, it's so powerful it'll actually lift them up)

Re:Alone on the Open Road: Truckers Feel Like ‘Throwaway Peo... by LoonyBalloony on Tuesday May 23, 2017 @02:22AM (#14399208)
How about hard wood floors?