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Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by ilamont on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:38AM (#14382560)
Indie publisher here. I am also a board member of the Independent Book Publishers Association, which has come out against the new Buy Box policy.

The big question on everyone's mind is where the new third-party books are coming from. Here are my personal views:

* Many publishers suspect that the books are not actually new, but rather are used from various sources and are being sold as new. However, there hasn't been any proof that this is a widespread phenomenon. OTOH, there is practically no barrier to a seller making a "new" claim for a used book. The main disincentive is Amazon might punish them if it's discovered or enough readers complain.

* Review copies are being sold as new. I know two publishers who have received complaints about this from readers who purchased a "new" book from Amazon, only to discover that it was marked as an ARC or not for resale.

* Third-party sellers are getting their hands on overstock or returns from retailers that were supposed to be pulped or destroyed. I have heard of two businesses that have operated in this realm, but both appear to be legitimately purchasing overstock as opposed to buying copies that should have been destroyed.

* Third-party sellers are accessing wholesale channels intended for retailers or libraries. These sales are legit, but publishers get less money from them. See the Createspace thread below (first two pages) for a discussion of one case.

* Some of the new books are pirated. This is my personal view that is not widely shared, but I believe this is going to be a big problem going forward, based not only on two documented cases this year (Dave Burgess' pirated copy of "Teach Like a Pirate" and Bill Pollock's "Python for Kids", see links below) but also because it's such a widespread phenomenon elsewhere on Amazon. It's a matter of time before pirates discover it's open season for books, and more and more will rush in using cheap short-run digital or print on demand to own the buy box.

There may be other sources as well. If the books are used and are being sold as such, it's accessed through a wholesaler, or it's overstock sourced legitimately, that's not an issue. But publishers should be concerned if used books and review copies are being sold as new, or pirates are eating their lunch.

1. https://twitter.com/burgessdave/status/849039943561134080

2. https://twitter.com/billpollock/status/844030960333152256

3. https://forums.createspace.com/en/community/message/76847#76...

ETA: Wholesale channels bullet and "new" claims details

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by UnoriginalGuy on Saturday May 20, 2017 @10:47AM (#14382603)
* Used books means the publisher (and author) got paid. It is an issue between the buyer and seller (and Amazon as the broker).

* Why are the publisher producing so many review copies that this is even possible? And why isn't "review copy" plastered on every page? Why doesn't it have a different ISBN number (or no ISBN at all)? This just screams of publisher incompetence.

* Selling legitimate overstock is not a problem. Additionally the publisher (and author) got paid. Selling "destroyed" books is, again, the publisher being incompetent. Typically a publisher will have the first page or front cover returned to prove it was destroyed.

* Fake books are a legitimate problem, but the articles goes out of its way to say that that isn't happening multiple times.

Outside of fake books, most of these other theories read more like conspiracy and don't make rational sense on the face of it.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by billpollock on Saturday May 20, 2017 @01:12PM (#14383321)
* I have no issue with people selling used books. As with any good, if you own it you should be able to resell it.

* Publishers send out review copies to get reviews. I used to mark our review copies but reviewers don't like that. For some, their compensation from whatever source they write for for is the book they review.

* There are numerous entities in the publishing supply chain and always the potential for holes or bad actors.

* We've had five books sold as fakes.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by joemi on Saturday May 20, 2017 @12:54PM (#14383224)
Though shouldn't the issue with used books being sold as new and ARCs being sold as new get sorted out just by customers complaining to Amazon about sellers? And if that doesn't fix it, isn't Amazon's handling of that the real problem, in those cases?

As someone knowledgeable about this stuff, what was the actual buybox policy change? As a third party seller, I've been getting emails from Amazon for years about winning the buybox, so I'm confused about what actually changed recently, since the article made it sound like third parties winning the buybox is a new thing.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by ilamont on Saturday May 20, 2017 @01:09PM (#14383310)
The buy box policy has been in place for other categories for years. Only earlier this year did it open up for books. Prior, only the publisher controlled the buy box, although it was possible for sellers of new copies to be listed on the link to the third-party sellers.

Regarding the ARCs marked as such: not every customer will complain to Amazon. Some readers don't care, others complain to the publisher or the seller.

Amazon's handling of inventory has been a problem for a long time. This HN thread talks about commingling issues for products other than books (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13927641) which is mostly about pirated merchandise. Warehouse workers don't check or Amazon doesn't care. For the ARCs, I think most are fulfilled by the seller as opposed to going through Amazon FBA so there's no way for Amazon to even look at the book. They're going on the seller's word that it's a legit product for sale.

Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by billpollock on Saturday May 20, 2017 @01:09PM (#14383307)
At least five of our titles were counterfeited on Amazon. The counterfeits replaced our main inventory and owned the Buy button.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by ilamont on Saturday May 20, 2017 @01:11PM (#14383316)
Bill, did you find out the source of the counterfeits? I know you said earlier it was Createspace for at least one of the titles.
Re:Amazon has made a change to the way it sells books, which... by billpollock on Saturday May 20, 2017 @06:23PM (#14384665)
We know the source of only one of the five titles. We're still trying to find details on the other four. That one was CreateSpace.