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Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by joshuamorton on Monday May 15, 2017 @02:12PM (#14343719)
"Again, that Fuji -- and, at least on the record, no other LiDAR -- copies specific GBr3 specifications is striking evidence suggesting that at least some evidence from Waymo's files has already found its way into Uber's Lidar designs."

"At this stage, that is sufficient to extrapolate that at least some of the information in the 14,000-plus downloads likely qualifies for trade secret protection, and certain relief is warranted to prevent the misuse of those downloads as this litigation progresses."

Note that these two quotes are about a separate way that the Fuji likely infringes on the GBr3.

It really does seem like Alsup would have provided further relief if waymo hadn't been so broad in their claims of infringement (again, see footnote 6: "Waymo's inequitable conduct is factored into the relief granted herein")

It seems to generally come down to this:

"For similar reasons, this order also declines, at this stage, to enjoin Uber from using even the specific asserted trade secrets on which Waymo has shown serious questions going to the merits — i.e., Even a limited injunction as to these specific features would impose hardship on Uber’s overall LiDAR development that is disproportionate to Waymo’s limited showing of misappropriation by defendants thus far"

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by rogerdonaldson on Monday May 15, 2017 @05:46PM (#14345429)
Btw, how do they prevent "reverse theft" here? When Google looks at Uber designs, couldnt they learn from them and incorporate the learnings back into their designs?

Regardless of whether Uber's design is using some of Waymo's design concepts -- I am sure there will be a lot of different aspects in Uber's designs some of which could be useful for Waymo.

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by joshuamorton on Monday May 15, 2017 @06:20PM (#14345681)
Elsewhere in the thread its been explained that "google get's to look at Uber's Lidar" is really "Google's lawyers and some non-employee experts get to look at Uber's Lidar". Essentially its Chinese walled, your average Waymo engineer (in fact probably every waymo engineer) isn't going to see the documents.
Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by linkregister on Monday May 15, 2017 @07:49PM (#14346235)
Not to discount HN legal experts, but nowhere is third-party examination mentioned in the document. "Waymo attorney" and "Waymo expert" are the terms used.

Edit: I don't think there's much risk of this. It's illegal enough that I doubt an individual engineer would risk prison over the corporation they happened to work for.

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by joshuamorton on Monday May 15, 2017 @11:17PM (#14347126)
Right, waymo attorney is what it is, but waymo expert does not imply waymo employee (much like waymo attorney doesn't necessarily imply waymo employee either)
Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by pfarnsworth on Monday May 15, 2017 @02:42PM (#14343998)
"likely infringes" is absolutely false. Your bias is showing.

There's evidence. But not enough for a preliminary injunction, which is why there's going to be a trial. If there were a smoking gun, then they would have issues a preliminary injunction. And there hasn't even been a question as to whether or not these are trade secrets. That's part of the trial.

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by joshuamorton on Monday May 15, 2017 @06:54PM (#14345911)
1. A preliminary injunction was issued, just not a sweeping one

2. "is striking evidence" is a phrase that to me implies that the Uber lidar likely infringes, please explain if you disagree.

3. Speaking of bias, elsewhere in this thread you say "As far as I can tell from reading the injunction, there wasn't a single case of a trade secret from those documents making its way into Uber's technology." [0]. Given that Alsup believes that Waymo has demonstrated "striking evidence" to the contrary, will you revise that position?

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14342469

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by pfarnsworth on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @11:07AM (#14350159)
"Striking evidence" is just that. Evidence. I'll wait for the results of the hearing to see what the overall judgement is. Have you forgotten that all trials have evidence both for and against? But the evidence wasn't enough to issue a preliminary injunction, which means that there is no smoking gun.

A preliminary injunction was issues against Levandowski, because as the judge said, there is more than enough evidence to suggest that he downloaded the files. Given the judge's decision, this injunction is a layup and pretty understandable. If the technology he allegedly stole made its way into Uber's technology, it would be an easy decision to give an injunction for Uber to stop development. But the judge even didn't issue a narrow injunction against any development in Lidar whatsoever. So that speaks volumes. Not winning a preliminary injunction is pretty huge.

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by joshuamorton on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @11:56AM (#14350562)
>Evidence. I'll wait for the results of the hearing to see what the overall judgement is. Have you forgotten that all trials have evidence both for and against? But the evidence wasn't enough to issue a preliminary injunction, which means that there is no smoking gun.

Yes there was, that's what this document is.

>A preliminary injunction was issues against Levandowski

No, a preliminary injunction was issues against Uber preventing Levandowski from working on things. As far as the court is concerned, Levandowski isn't a party in this case. To be clear, this Order is an injunction against Uber, no one else. That's the way the court sees it (and this has been made pretty clear in prior arguments).

There was enough evidence to issue a preliminary injunction against uber, just not one that required them to stop working on lidar completely. This is despite what Alsup says at the end of page 12, which I read as being the main reason (and again, alsup clearly states this in footnote six) that the injunctive relief isn't stronger. Or in other words, Alsup was, based on the evidence provided, willing to place a stronger injunction against Uber, but has not as a way to 'punish' Waymo for overreaching in some of its claims.

I'd take some time to read section D. It pretty clearly explains all of this (basically, Waymo asked for the court to account for Adverse Interference to make a stronger judgement, and the court denied because Waymo was also misbehaving).

Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by pfarnsworth on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @10:57PM (#14355281)
You're reading it wrong.
Re:Judge orders Uber not to use technology taken from Waymo by joshuamorton on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @12:19PM (#14359950)
That's a strong accusation to make without any kind of supporting anything.