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Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by thaumasiotes on Monday May 15, 2017 @01:05PM (#14343177)
Something I ask in basically every WASM thread is: what is the conceptual difference between WASM ("good") and Java applets ("bad")? How does the system you describe differ from having the browser implement a JVM?
Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by jimmaswell on Monday May 15, 2017 @01:29PM (#14343384)
Java applets were unfortunately ahead of their time for the hardware available and got a bad reputation for being slow, along with security problems, and now that Google extinguished plugins like Java and Flash (Google gets to skip the Extend step) we're stuck with whatever Chrome lets webasm do with no competition for this kind of VM-in-a-browser. The homogenization Google forced on the web is a travesty but everybody is too distracted by shiny new HTML5 features and the anti-plugin bandwagon to care.
Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by amyjess on Monday May 15, 2017 @02:34PM (#14343924)
Conceptually? It's not that different, and the only problems with Java were its implementation.

* Java was plagued with security problems. One area where Java really shot itself in the foot was that unsigned applets were sandboxed, but signed applets had unfettered access to everything, so you had to choose between signing and sandboxing. And then once security concerns became a big thing, Sun responded by killing support for unsigned applets saying it'll increase trust, but what they really did was make the problem worse by killing the sandbox.

* Java was proprietary until long after its star had fallen.

* Java was introduced when computers weren't that powerful. The JVM took forever to start up and would slow down your whole computer while running. Most of us kept Java disabled unless we had to use an applet for something just because of the massive performance hit.

You can make similar arguments about Flash, too: it too had security holes, proprietary software, and performance issues.

There is one thing I really liked about Java and Flash, though: you could turn it off. If you don't want a site loading some heavy Flash monstrosity and eating all your RAM (I had so many issues with Flash killing the RAM on my old laptop with only 512 MB of RAM), you could just turn plugins off or install an extension to force you to click to load Flash content. You can't do that with JavaScript, so maybe WASM will bring that part of the old days back too.

Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by Canada on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:03PM (#14344657)
> you could just turn plugins off or install an extension to force you to click to load Flash content. You can't do that with JavaScript, so maybe WASM will bring that part of the old days back too.

NoScript?

Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by thaumasiotes on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:21PM (#14344784)
I feel reasonably confident in predicting that WASM will have security holes and performance issues too. Computational demand always expands to fill the available performance.

Was there any point in the development of WASM where it made more sense to develop WASM to replace the JVM than it would have made to try fixing the problems with the JVM? Are we at that point now? It sounds like the last two problems fixed themselves.

Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by khedoros1 on Monday May 15, 2017 @01:47PM (#14343517)
I'd assume something like the conceptual difference between HTML5 canvas/video ("good") and Flash ("bad"). No plugins. Better sandboxing. Open specification not owned by some specific company. An expectation of multiple competing implementations.

Basically, it's a lot of the same stuff, but a (hopefully) better implementation, and promoted in a way that appeals to the people likely to use it. Start with an old technology. Tweak, relabel, and market under the new name.

Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by Rusky on Monday May 15, 2017 @01:53PM (#14343576)
Java applets have a radically different security model from Javascript and wasm. There's only thing that makes wasm any closer to Java applets than Javascript already is- it's distributed as a bytecode that's not dynamically typed, rather than text.

But Javascript's dynamically typed textual representation has nothing to do with what makes it better than Java applets. It's the security model, which wasm shares.

Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by thaumasiotes on Monday May 15, 2017 @07:42PM (#14346207)
Wouldn't it be easier to change the security model on Java applets than to go through whatever the process of developing wasm is?
Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by Rusky on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @12:12PM (#14350726)
Perhaps, but there are other benefits to wasm than "lacks Java applets' downsides"- JVM bytecode is locked into the Java object model and garbage collector, while wasm doesn't impose any particular style of memory management. This makes it far more straightforward to use in high-performance situations than Java can ever be.
Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by throwasehasdwi on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:06PM (#14344683)
Java applets were far too ahead of their time. Now that we actually have the bandwidth and computing power to support Applets they would be far superior than the Frankenstein of CSS, JS, and HTML we have now.
Re:An Abridged Cartoon Introduction To WebAssembly by drdrey on Monday May 15, 2017 @07:04PM (#14345987)
Applets were confined to a horrible UI toolkit instead of working natively with the DOM