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Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by WalterBright on Sunday May 14, 2017 @09:55AM (#14335624)
But not doing space travel does not fix the environment. Fixing the environment is an orthogonal issue.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by KellhusSmellhus on Sunday May 14, 2017 @10:26AM (#14335756)
As long as the resources are not orthagonal the problems are not orthagonal. Meaning the money and effort shooting rockets could be put into fixing the environment, the "defense" problem, and all kinds of suffering and death.

One could argue that space could give us a shitload of resources to solve those other issues.

On a related note I would like to plug the meme that "humanity" as a whole is worth shit; what matters is the qualia of actual humans and then other possibly conscious beings. I don't care whether there are humans somewhere in space if we down here die from nuclear holocaust, global warming, aging or hunger. I am not "humanity" and neither is anyone else. We are all individuals striving to survive and not suffer, and sure we can cooperate in that endeavour and create superorganisms to aid us - but the emphasis is on "aid", which is not "enslave". I shit on any superorganism building meme that does not put actual humans or consciousnesses first.

EDIT: typos

Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by colordrops on Sunday May 14, 2017 @12:22PM (#14336211)
But the amount spent on space travel compared to all the other expenses is negligible, making it orthogonal for all intents and purposes.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by Veedrac on Sunday May 14, 2017 @12:43PM (#14336308)
Bill Gates was answering in the context his own philanthropic efforts. He, and billionaires like him, certainly would suffer from major opportunity-cost losses by investing in space travel suboptimally.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by KellhusSmellhus on Sunday May 14, 2017 @02:39PM (#14336906)
I wonder whether those experts and resources used on space could do feasible climate engineering...

The only environmental existential risk (apart from the human extended phenotype of course :) ) is climate-based, no?

Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by colordrops on Monday May 15, 2017 @04:57PM (#14345055)
You can't really make people work on things they aren't interested in though. The experts that are involved in the space industry may not function well in other industries, regardless of imminent doom.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by KellhusSmellhus on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @04:36AM (#14348188)
But money spent on space interested experts could be spent on climate interested experts.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by colordrops on Tuesday May 16, 2017 @10:09PM (#14355041)
We are going in circles. My original point was that the money spent on space travel is negligible compared to other expenses.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by wavesandwind on Sunday May 14, 2017 @10:10AM (#14335684)
Absolutely. One helps and complements the other quite nicely. Yet currently it feels the focus is very much shifted towards space travel. Sure, it's much more glamorous to fly through space sci-fi style than dig around in the garbage dump. Oh well...
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by RandomOpinion on Sunday May 14, 2017 @10:18AM (#14335726)
> Fixing the environment is an orthogonal issue.

Not at all. If we, as a species, don't fix the environment, we aren't going to be around long enough for space exploration to become technologically and economically practical.

Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by WalterBright on Sunday May 14, 2017 @11:11AM (#14335908)
Space travel neither takes away from nor impedes fixing the environment. Heck, the annual NASA budget is half what Seattle is blowing on a transit tunnel that goes a few miles.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by greeneggs on Sunday May 14, 2017 @12:00PM (#14336104)
NASA's 2017 budget is $19.5 billion. The Alaskan Way Viaduct is estimated to cost $4.25 billion.

Trump's proposed EPA budget is $5.7 billion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Way_Viaduct_replacemen...

Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by WalterBright on Sunday May 14, 2017 @01:46PM (#14336589)
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by cftm on Sunday May 14, 2017 @12:24PM (#14336216)
I think the general point holds as $19.5B is a rounding error in the US's budget. There are issues with the lack of funding to EPA but with respect to this discussion it's a straw-man.
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by scriptkiddy on Sunday May 14, 2017 @12:04PM (#14336127)
The research that is necessary for space exploration leads to terrestrial technology as well. Another poster above mentioned how solar panels would not be nearly as efficient as they are if Bell Labs didn't spend the time researching them for satellites. That's just one example. Nasa is currently working on a ton of different research projects with an extremely small budget. One of these projects is designed to take water from waste products such as human sweat, urine, and other gross stuff and recycle it back into drinkable water.

Here are some more examples:

> NASA’s microencapsulating technology enabled the creation of a "Petroleum Remediation Product," which safely cleans petroleum-based pollutants from water.

> In the 1990s, NASA scientists at JPL developed software capable of correcting for GPS signal errors, enabling accuracy within inches. The software is called Real-Time GIPSY (RTG). John Deere licensed the software and used it to develop self-driving farm equipment. As of 2016, as nearly 70% of North American farmland is cultivated by self-driving tractors, which rely on RTG originally developed at NASA.

> Dr. Alain Gachet founded Radar Technologies International (RTI) in 1999 to use satellite generated data to identify probable locations of precious metals and during its use found it could also detect water. The system developed with this data, WATEX, uses about 80 percent of its data inputs from publically available NASA information. This free information allowed RTI to develop the WATEX system to successfully locate water sources, such as in 2004 at refugee camps during the War in Darfur.

> So-called space blankets, developed in 1964 for the space program, are lightweight and reflect infrared radiation. These items are often included in first aid kits.

> Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company developed a fibrous material, five times stronger than steel, for NASA to use in parachute shrouds to soft-land the Viking Lander spacecraft on the Martian surface. Recognizing the durability of the material, Goodyear expanded the technology and went on to produce a new radial tire with a tread life expected to be 10,000 miles (16,000 km) greater than conventional radials.

> Firefighting equipment in the United States is based on lightweight materials developed for the U.S. Space Program. NASA and the National Bureau of Standards created a lightweight breathing system including face mask, frame, harness, and air bottle, using an aluminum composite material developed by NASA for use on rocket casings.

> NASA developed a cloud compute platform to give additional compute and storage resources for its engineers, called Nebula. In July 2010, the Nebula code was released as open source and NASA partnered with Rackspace, to form the OpenStack project.[42] OpenStack is used in the cloud-based products from many companies in the cloud market.

The above is just a small sampling of some of the technologies born or improved by Nasa research. Nasa, of course, is not the only organization in the space research and exploration game. As you can see, research for space exploration almost always has some level of terrestrial utility.

Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by WalterBright on Sunday May 14, 2017 @01:49PM (#14336608)
Let's not forget Tang!
Re:Bill Gates questions worth of space exploration for impro... by raleighm on Sunday May 14, 2017 @11:50AM (#14336060)
The issue is opportunity cost of resources spent on space exploration.