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Re:Can Money Set You Free? by brc on Monday June 14, 2010 @12:35AM (#1428903)
This shows the author, his father and grandfather had the wrong end of the stick. His grandfather, wanting security, had traded his time and independance for security, and got neither. His father, wanting to ensure he had both security and longevity, got neither. The author, apparently seeing this as a failed experiment, walked away from it.

What he failed to realise that neither his father or grandfather ever got control over their situation. The continually worked for money by trading their precious time for security. It's that which made them unhappy, not the actual money.

The author, to me, is making the fundamental mistake of thinking that you have to work 40 hours a week for 40 years to have 'money', so the choice is between working like a dog or having nothing, not realising that their is another way. Can money set you free? Of course it can, but not if you're trading your free time for your money.

For most people, it is a choice between security of income and freedom to spend your time as you want. The most secure people on the planet are prisoners, but they don't have the freedom to do what they want. If you're prepared to accept a less-secure income (by being risky, ie, startups) then you're going to gain the benefits of freedom when/if it does work out.

Bottom line : if this guy's Dad had cashed out at a younger age and spent the last 20 years of his life doing things on his own terms, he wouldn't have died an unhappy man in a short retirement.

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by chc on Monday June 14, 2010 @12:51AM (#1428931)
Your comment reads to me like an extremely long variant of "Let them eat cake."

You really need to explain how working for a little while and then "cashing out" was a viable option for these men that they simply chose not to exercise.

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by kragen on Monday June 14, 2010 @02:36AM (#1429068)
I would agree with you if you were talking about coal miners or supermarket checkers, but the one guy was a dentist and the other guy was a banker. Even 80 years ago, dentists and bankers made more than three times as much money per year as regular people. If they couldn't retire after one-third the normal career length, maybe the fault was not in their stars, but in themselves: perhaps a failure of frugality?
Re:Can Money Set You Free? by Tichy on Monday June 14, 2010 @03:37AM (#1429123)
Or the people who make just one third are just even poorer. I have an income in the top 10% of my country, yet my feeling is it is only sufficient to scrape by in a moderately convenient way. Certainly not enough to retire early. Like to buy a house or apartment, I would probably still have to take a 30 year credit.
Re:Can Money Set You Free? by kragen on Monday June 14, 2010 @05:35PM (#1431078)
Pretty much everybody has the feeling that their income is "only sufficient to scrape by in a moderately convenient way". In the end, of course, they're all wrong: no income is enough to keep you alive. What good does homeownership do you once you're dead?

You're comment points out very effectively that this is an illusion. I'm sure you're aware that the other 90% of the people in your country are also at least scraping by, even though many of them have an income that is a fraction of yours. Do you suppose they spend all their time missing the conveniences you take for granted? Unless those conveniences are things like access to surgery and adequate food for their children (do you live in Zimbabwe?) probably not.

So consider whether the conveniences that account for the discrepancy between their scraping along and your scraping along are really worth the inconveniences required to buy them.

If you're like 90% of people, you never will consider this seriously — because if it wasn't crazy, everybody would be doing it, right? — until it's time for you to retire.

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by brc on Monday June 14, 2010 @06:07AM (#1429274)
No, it was not meant to be 'let them eat cake'.

The point is : in free countries, we all get to choose our destiny, particularly so if born into middle class families. Any of us can choose to work hard for a while, find success and cash out. These men chose to take paid, salaried positions : they sacrificed their time for security of income stream. They (apparently, we have no evidence otherwise) never tried to question this, or try any other way of gaining both money and free time.

My point is they should have investigated other ways to make their money rather than work for someone else their whole life. The Authors conclusion, to me, is that working for money doesn't give you freedom. I agree completely, and say you should be finding ways to make money work for you.

I don't think my explanations are coming through very well, that's a shortcoming in my writing. But I fully understand that many readers won't get what I'm trying to say, because they probably have the same mindset as the Author, his Father and Grandfather.

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by chc on Monday June 14, 2010 @02:59PM (#1430574)
I guess I just disagree with your premise. We can choose what we do, and we can influence our destiny, but we cannot choose our destiny. You can have a great business plan, eager customers and a wonderful revenue model and get hit by a drunk driver tomorrow. I wouldn't then say, "Well, that guy should have chosen a destiny where he didn't get run over."

We can't choose whether we get run over, and we can't choose whether we "find success" or have an opportunity to "cash out." We can try to influence things the way we want, but choosing our actions is not the same as choosing our results.

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by anamax on Monday June 14, 2010 @12:44PM (#1430158)
> You really need to explain how working for a little while and then "cashing out" was a viable option for these men that they simply chose not to exercise.

Actually he doesn't.

They lived far above subsistence. That's a choice. One consequence of that choice is that they weren't saving the difference between subsistence and their chosen lifestyle for investment and/or later use, including early retirement at subsisistence.

I'm also pretty sure that no one forced them into their occupations and that they ignored opportunities that they could have done while pursuing said occupations.

I don't know what they did with their time, but I do know that they had time to do other things that would have had different outcomes. If they're unhappy with the consequences of their choices....

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by rortian on Monday June 14, 2010 @01:09AM (#1428965)
Yeah with the added constraint that it was a pension that the Dad retired with.
Re:Can Money Set You Free? by starkfist on Monday June 14, 2010 @12:39AM (#1428913)
There are few career paths where one can "cash out."
Re:Can Money Set You Free? by brc on Monday June 14, 2010 @06:09AM (#1429276)
Right, so choose one where you can. That's my point. Don't bash your head against a bank wall for 40 years and then think you've wasted your life.

In other words : you can't sell a job, so why spend 40 years working at one?

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by barrkel on Monday June 14, 2010 @12:47PM (#1430168)
What are you going to do after you "cash out"? Work can be a source of purpose in one's life. I don't believe in this idea, that seems implied in your post, that bliss lies in comfortable unemployment.
Re:Can Money Set You Free? by brc on Monday June 14, 2010 @08:02PM (#1431414)
>What are you going to do after you "cash out"?

Whatever you want! Start another job, go trekking, work for a charity, write poetry.

The original article questions whether money can get you freedom, the answer is : yes it can! The ultimate freedom is choosing to do things each day because you want to, not because you have to.

Re:Can Money Set You Free? by barrkel on Tuesday June 15, 2010 @10:23PM (#1434497)
You can start another job, go trekking, work for a charity, write poetry, etc. without needing to cash out. Just do it now. No need for money, if that's what you really want.

Your life is made up of what you are doing right now, not what you think you're going to do sometime in the future.