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Re:Puerto Rico files for biggest ever U.S. local government ... by bpodgursky on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @04:34PM (#14259797)
> and the federal government will backstop the states

I think it's unlikely the federal government will be backstopping pension problems in IL and CA anytime soon, without a dramatic congressional shift.

I think you underestimate how much taxes will need to raise to cover these liabilities. The federal government already has its hands full with SS + Medicare commitments it can't handle.

I'd rather see failures and bankruptcies at a local level, which will maybe convince other municipalities to reform before they collapse. I don't want everything centralized into one giant US federal government default. That's not a better plan.

Re:Puerto Rico files for biggest ever U.S. local government ... by toomuchtodo on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @04:37PM (#14259818)
> I think it's unlikely the federal government will be backstopping pension problems in IL and CA anytime soon, without a dramatic congressional shift.

Agreed. That shift is going to happen though. Seniors are not a cohort you can ignore. They vote like clockwork.

> I think you underestimate how much taxes will need to raise to cover these liabilities. The federal government already has its hands full with SS + Medicare commitments it can't handle.

I don't, but we should've been setting aside these funds. We didn't, and we'll still need to pay out even at a reduced benefits level.

> I'd rather see failures and bankruptcies at a local level, which will maybe convince other municipalities to reform before they collapse. I don't want everything centralized into one giant US federal government default. That's not a better plan.

Reform will not happen. That's code for "cutting benefits". As long as the US government maintains the ability to tax, it will not default. Social Security keeps a third of seniors out of poverty. 45 percent of Puerto Rican's are already in poverty. Cutting benefits further? That's not tenable.

No one held government accountable over the last several decades, and now we're stuck with the fallout.

EDIT: Because of ye olde' HN throttling limits:

Most seniors don't pay taxes, due to marginal tax rates. Seniors will vote all day to keep their benefits intact. I don't blame them.

Re:Puerto Rico files for biggest ever U.S. local government ... by nopinsight on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @05:06PM (#14260087)
Unless the brinks of defaults will happen in close successions in > 20-30% of the country, what are the incentives for MPs to vote yes on the backstopping for jurisdictions far from their own?

> Reform will not happen. That's code for "cutting benefits".

The benefits to be cut will happen in a few small areas given the size of the US, thus will not affect the majority of lawmakers. If the GOP controls the Congress, that doesn't seem like a large enough impact for them to change their overall ideology towards pension subsidies.

Re:Puerto Rico files for biggest ever U.S. local government ... by roywiggins on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @05:13PM (#14260154)
> what are the incentives for MPs to vote yes on the backstopping to jurisdictions far from their own?

Stick it in an omnibus bill with stuff they do like?

Re:Puerto Rico files for biggest ever U.S. local government ... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @05:21PM (#14260230)
Sure, seniors vote. Don't assume that the seniors in, say, Texas are going to be in favor of higher taxes in order to rescue pensions in California and Illinois, though.
Re:Puerto Rico files for biggest ever U.S. local government ... by Jedd on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @06:39PM (#14260854)
Texas (at the time of writing) only appears in this page the once ... which is surprising in this context given its history. [1]

A country / protectorate defaulting is not necessarily something that can't be recovered from, and in some cases is the only sensible (or indeed feasible) course of action.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_dollar