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Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @01:14AM (#14253220)
You really shouldn't be buying plant seeds off the internet. Invasive species is a big problem, and even if you buy legit oregano (or whatever) seeds, there's a high risk that a couple of the seeds are really something else that's not native to your region.
Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @04:43PM (#14259880)
I don't think these Japanese Maple and lavender and Carolina Reaper seeds are going to become invasive. :)

They aren't seeds originally found in China, they were just obtained elsewhere and then grown there cheaply and put on AliExpress, I assume.

As to worries about seed contamination from stray seeds from other countries like China, where do you think all the seeds in your seed catalog come from?

http://themindfulhome.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-definitive-gu...

"It's safe to say, a fair amount of what we purchase from distributors probably was grown in China." -Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds (rareseeds.com)

"depending on the seed variety and specific lot, we may have seed that was sourced from China." -GrowOrganic.com (aka Peaceful Valley)

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by roel_v on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @01:53AM (#14253367)
What is 'native'? All apple trees are Persian, in the end. Just because there are a few species that outcompete others, doesn't mean that we need to freeze whatever is the current state of geographic dispersion of species to the 'gold standard', that we will defend and maintain at all cost.

I explicitly seek out exotic seeds to see how they will behave in my climate. Diversity is good. This whole 'native first' (or rather, 'native only') needs to die already.

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @02:30AM (#14253494)
Well, there's quite a few examples of invasive species that have constituted significant threats to human, animal or plant health, for instance. Like malaria, the bubonic plague, minor nuisances like that.

For some examples from more recent times, the US timber industry has spent tens of millions of dollars fighting the Asian long-horned beetle, the citrus industry has an extensive quarantine program in place fighting Asian Citrus Psyllid, invasive varroa mite are part of the reason for the strong decline in honeybee populations, etc.

Now you may say, "but I'm not importing mosquitos, just seeds", but really with Chinese seed suppliers with unknown QA and no knowledge of the ecosystem in your region, you run a real risk of introducing fungi, bacteria, insects etc. that can spread and do serious damage. Do us all a favour and buy seeds in your own country, where at least some QA and vetting for big risk factors has been performed.

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by roel_v on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @08:01AM (#14254945)
Diseases are just that, diseases, not invasive or not. 'Invasive' is about competition, not direct attack. Goes for all your examples. So if you're saying 'don't import diseases' - well yeah. But that's not the point here.

Please tell which fungi, bacteria and insects spread through the vector you propose. Where do you think the seed you buy in your local garden center comes from?

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @09:18AM (#14255369)
I already gave several examples of bad stuff that spreads through the proposed vectors. If you would like some literature to back this up, here you go.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1890/070151/full

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800904...

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vbz.2011.0814

The second one of those estimates the economic damage caused by invasive species in the US as $97 billion during the 20th century.

If you would rather like something written for the general public, here is an info page from the Australian government - or you could just try taking your imported seeds with you in your hand luggage when flying into Sydney, and see how well that goes.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive-species/...

The seeds you buy at your local garden center are subject to national and international laws, regulations and agreements specifically written based on work of hundreds of scientists to prevent as much as possible the introduction of diseases and other bad things that don't exist where you live. The garden center has to follow these regulations (and document compliance) or they get fined. When you buy seeds on eBay or AliExpress or wherever, there simply are no regulations on the sellers. Do you dispute this simple fact?

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @09:25AM (#14255415)
Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by sbov on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @03:06AM (#14253630)
Invasive species tend to be a term used for things that thrive and choke out all competition and ultimately come to dominate and severely alter the landscape. Ultimately they tend to be bad for diversity.

Sorta like humans, except in plant/other animal form.

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by roel_v on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @07:51AM (#14254901)
Strawman. GP was saying 'don't buy overseas seeds because they are species that are not native to wherever you are importing them to'. Which doesn't make sense - whether a species out competes another doesn't depend on where it's from. Sure, when you introduce some species into certain ecosystems, those ecosystems will change. Nobody's saying you shouldn't think and/or manage. What I'm saying is that the whole 'exotic is bad' line of thinking ultimately boils down to the naturalistic fallacy.
Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @09:27AM (#14255438)
Exotic is bad when it costs the US economy $167bn a year, which is a realistic estimate of the amount lost because of the effects of invasive species of all kinds.

If you think that's a "naturalistic fallacy" perhaps you need to brush up on your economics.

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by verinus on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @05:47AM (#14254250)
this change should occur naturally and not be man made- we don't understand complex eco-systems enough to make such servere changes.

there is a reason why certain things are native- I would suggest a more humble approach!

Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by roel_v on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @07:46AM (#14254872)
Right, because apple trees took a stroll across the Mediterranean to settle in Europe?
Re:Etsy has ousted its CEO and is laying off 8 percent of it... by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday May 03, 2017 @09:25AM (#14255417)
No, obviously humans brought them over. Those same humans also brought the rat all over Europe, and with it the Bubonic Plague aka. the Black Death - which killed a third of the human population - full stop. Think about that one for a while.