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Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:04PM (#14234367)
Interviewing is stupid simple. It is your ego moment. You get to sit in a room and talk about yourself. Although you don't control the conversation you can steer it in creative enough directions to keep it fun and positive.

Maybe if you are a college grad with 0 real life experience then maybe interview prep is necessary... don't know. I could be biased though. The last place I interviewed at they knew who I was, something about my software, and some of my online controversies before I even walked in the door.

The best preparation for interviewing at large companies is having a second part-time job somewhere in management. I held my first management position in a part-time job at age 24 and was once a director. I have never held a management position in the primary full-time career, which is a weird inverse of power-distance in some work meetings. Being a parent is also good experience for dealing with people.

What they need to provide education on isn't dominating the interview process... but drilling down on the proper information necessary for new candidate retention.

I have worked at places that are awesome and really work hard to ensure you are happy and constantly engaged in the work. I have also worked at places that completely suck full of benchwarmers with a million layers of abstractions so that code monkeys can feel a bit more confident. It is helpful to know if you are going to be miserable in the organization.

The candidate really does share some of the burden of figuring out if they will be a good fit for the organization, but this is often really hard to interrogate out of the interviewers even for experienced people.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by sillysaurus3 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:17PM (#14234429)
Interviewing is stupid simple. [...] Maybe if you are a college grad with 0 real life experience then maybe interview prep is necessary... don't know. I could be biased though. The last place I interviewed at they knew who I was, something about my software, and some of my online controversies before I even walked in the door.

Yes, this is bias. Most candidates aren't being hunted by employers. It's the other way around.

It's quite the opposite of "simple." It's a soul-crushing experience of being denied at every interview because you can't think out loud or do whiteboard coding and don't have a social media portfolio presence to fall back on. The only simple part is how simple it is to reject a candidate based on the personal prejudices of just one of the five different interviewers you have to meet with.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:26PM (#14234480)
> Most candidates aren't being hunted by employers.

I call this the talent gap. When you are a newb or completely lack either experience or confidence in your skills life is harder. You have massively increased competition for lower paying jobs filled with more menial tasks. I have been there too. If a candidate doesn't want to be there they will invest in themselves outside the office. I spent as much time as I could writing open source software and language parsers while on military deployments.

Most developers I know are frequently hounded by recruiters because the demand for senior developers is stupid ridiculous.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by danellis on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:28PM (#14235401)
> Most developers I know are frequently hounded by recruiters because the demand for senior developers is stupid ridiculous.

Maybe in your bubble. My experience is that very few recruiters are hounding me, because most of them don't know I exist. I don't live or work in a tech hub, I don't work for a famous company, and I haven't published anything. I don't think that's a particularly unusual position to be in.

It's absolutely nothing to do with talent or experience, though.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by sillysaurus3 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:32PM (#14234516)
Most developers I know are frequently hounded by recruiters because the demand for senior developers is stupid ridiculous.

Yes, but the next step is actually interviewing at companies. It's obviously the best strategy to coax an employer into being interested in you, rather than the other way around. But most employers typically have an interview funnel, which I think is what people are talking about here. It sounds like you're referring to an employer actively seeking out a specific candidate that they're interested in. While that does happen, it's probably not the typical interview experience.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:59PM (#14234626)
Talking to people is a life skill. That is what interviewing is. You aren't going to learn this from inside a CS textbook. Whether you are seeking the job or they are seeking you is largely irrelevant. Being an extreme introvert isn't an issue here either, although it did cause me to pass out in the taxi to the airport once after a 6 hour interview.

Just be honest (immediately so), be humble, and have confidence that you will do your very best. What ever happens after that you don't really control. It is okay to be nervous, but keep it in context. Nobody is shooting at you. You aren't drowning. Your housing isn't burning down. It is just a conversation.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by sanderjd on Sunday April 30, 2017 @08:18PM (#14234685)
You seem to be talking about a very different kind of interview than what anybody else here is talking about. The kind that is "just a conversation" is still more difficult than you're making it out to be for a lot of people, but it's definitely easier than the full day of whiteboard coding and no open ended conversation style that every big company uses and every wanna-be big company parrots.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by ZanyProgrammer on Sunday April 30, 2017 @08:37PM (#14234748)
I agree, though it can be a little jarring going into what you expect to be a whiteboard interview, and just answering questions verbally. Its nice, certainly, but if you're not expecting it (and why would you, given the odds) it can take a bit to get your footing.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by jdbernard on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:38PM (#14235434)
Actually, I just finished a couple of weeks of interviews looking for a new job. I actually found that a lot of time I would talk through my solution to their whiteboard problem and by the time I'd talked it through--really just planning for myself before writing it out--they wouldn't wait for me to write it out. I'd explained it with enough clarity that actually writing it out would have just been a waste of time.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by sillysaurus3 on Monday May 01, 2017 @12:06AM (#14235494)
In other words, we've set up pipelines that reward those who can talk well, rather than those who can do well.

That might be an unfair characterization. But only just.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by jdbernard on Monday May 01, 2017 @09:58AM (#14237468)
A different characterization is that we are looking for those that think well. Both talking and code on whiteboards are only proxies for that, and neither are completely reliable proxies.

But really, if someone can describe the detailed psuedocode for an algorithm and explain its runtime characteristics, are you going to make them write out what they have just said?

Personally, I think the talking is a lot more valuable than the whiteboard. I rarely have to hand-write complete algorithm on a whiteboard, but I regularly need to communicate technical ideas accurately and succinctly. That's what I'm really trying to demonstrate anyways: of course I can code, but I can also organize my thoughts well and communicate them clearly to others.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @09:24PM (#14234901)
Maybe it is because I have a ton of code online for anybody to read that nobody wants to waste their time watching me write code on a whiteboard for hours. Sure, I will get asked to write some code in an interview but it is usally something quick and dirty just to validate thinking through a problem with a bit of pressure.

Honestly, in my experience, most application problems can be reasonably talked through without writing any code.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by sanderjd on Monday May 01, 2017 @08:41PM (#14243097)
Lots of people have lots of code online. Lots of companies don't take that into consideration when interviewing.

I share your experience that most problems can be reasonably talked through without writing code, but most people here are talking about a specific kind of interview that does not work that way.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by majormajor on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:09PM (#14234392)
"Interviewing is stupid simple. It is your ego moment. You get to sit in a room and talk about yourself. Although you don't control the conversation you can steer it in creative enough directions to keep it fun and positive."

That would be a nice improvement as a first filter, IMO, but this isn't always the case. For Google, for instance, the very first step might be a 45-minute phone conversation with a bored engineer who just wants you to code up whatever tree-based structure and methods tickle their fancy. They might not even tell you what team they work on, or what they do. They have a script, and they run it from memory, and your experience and past accomplishments are out the window.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:14PM (#14234418)
Google has the privilege to treat you like an ape, because they know people will take it to work there. "Dance monkey"! If being spanked like a monkey doesn't tickle your fancy then don't interview there. Interview prep isn't going to make that better.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by majormajor on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:51PM (#14234599)
Meanwhile, a bunch of non-Google companies think that this must be the right way to do it, so they copy it, and teaching people how to game the system like in the original article give them no reason not to, it just acclimates everyone to playing by stupid rules.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @08:00PM (#14234631)
Then call them out on it during the interview.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by majormajor on Sunday April 30, 2017 @11:34PM (#14235423)
Heck, I've walked away from an onsite mid-loop because I didn't like the process and it was stretching out and I had a flight to catch, but that doesn't mean I want things to be a "only the don't-give-a-fuck survive."
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by arvinsim on Sunday April 30, 2017 @09:39PM (#14234967)
Seriously? Looks like a quick way to get rejected, or at least be regarded negatively.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by austincheney on Sunday April 30, 2017 @10:06PM (#14235073)
If you are a afraid of asking valid questions for fear that you will be rejected god help you. It doesn't hurt to simply ask a question.

Now I know there are a lot of weak and timid personalities in the world of development, but once you put that blood into the water usually it doesn't take the sharks long to swarm on it. I have never walked away from an interview feeling dejected for asking the interviewer reasonable questions or attempting to qualify their assertions.

Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by sillysaurus3 on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:21PM (#14234456)
As someone who recently ran the interview gauntlet, the parent comment seems pretty accurate. It matches my experience with interviews at a wide variety of companies.
Re:How I went from failing every interview to a job at Amazon by voltagex_ on Sunday April 30, 2017 @07:21PM (#14234457)
The first phone interview I got with them was with an interviewer asking questions that were given to them by someone else - ranging from how does DNS work to inodes in filesystems and estimating 2^128... at 6:30AM in the morning.