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Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by labster on Saturday April 22, 2017 @02:06PM (#14173767)
So open pit uranium mines are that much better than ripping the tops off of mountains for coal?
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by ethbro on Saturday April 22, 2017 @02:14PM (#14173826)
You're forgetting the "It's different when it happens in Africa / India / China / South America" caveat to most arguments.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by labster on Saturday April 22, 2017 @02:56PM (#14174090)
I'd normally agree with you, but the top Uranium producers are Canada, Kazakhstan, and Australia. Uranium mining is a first (and second) world problem.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by Pxtl on Saturday April 22, 2017 @06:11PM (#14175113)
It's such a shame the Aussies don't build nuke plants. They have the uranium and they have a good place to store the waste. But they're so stuck on being Commonwealth Texas that they'll stick to fossil fuels forever.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by Jedd on Sunday April 23, 2017 @03:19AM (#14176971)
As an actual Australian I'm really happy that we don't build 'nuke plants' here. (I am assuming you mean nuclear fission power plants.)

We have uranium, yes, but if happenstance is our only criteria we should also be building nuclear weapons and burning lots of coal. Sadly we're doing the latter with great alacrity.

We also don't have a good place to store the waste. I don't think there's (m)any places on the planet that could be good places to store waste of this nature. It's probably telling that people often refer to nuclear waste needing to be stored or managed, rather than recycled, rendered safe, disposed of, etc.

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by vacri on Sunday April 23, 2017 @04:03AM (#14177085)
> We also don't have a good place to store the waste.

We've got tons of space to store the waste. The country is right in the middle of a tectonic plate, so little worry about earthquakes, and large swathes of the country are uninhabited by anyone, even mythical 'lost tribes'. Even if nowhere else, we could store waste in the giant area cordoned off for nuclear testing in the '50s.

In my opinion, it's hard to find somewhere better suited for storing nuclear waste than 'somewhere in Australia'. Stable, first-world government, a fair few places where we can put it where even leaks wouldn't be a problem, skilled populace, etc etc.

In any case, it looks like they're discussing it: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-08/should-south-australia...

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by Jedd on Sunday April 23, 2017 @09:06AM (#14177999)
> In my opinion, it's hard to find somewhere better suited for storing nuclear waste than 'somewhere in Australia'.

This makes sense only if your starting position is that creating nuclear waste makes sense.

> Stable, first-world government, a fair few places where we can put it where even leaks wouldn't be a problem, skilled populace, etc etc.

How long does nuclear (fission) waste need to be managed?

How long do you believe that AU has had a stable, first-world government?

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by vacri on Sunday April 23, 2017 @09:54AM (#14178158)
AU has had a stable government since it started at Federation, and it's had a first-world government since the definition of 'first-world' started in the '40s. There are few countries as stable as AU has been.

> This makes sense only if your starting position is that creating nuclear waste makes sense.

The waste is being created, regardless of whether or not you think it makes sense. You can pretend that there's some fantasy world where there's no nuclear waste, but in the meantime here in the real world, there is such stuff and it needs to be managed.

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by Jedd on Sunday April 23, 2017 @11:20AM (#14178492)
You missed the point of my questions:

> How long does nuclear (fission) waste need to be managed?

> How long do you believe that AU has had a stable, first-world government?

Federation was (to a rounding error) a century ago. Some would argue that it's been stable since then -- I'd argue it hasn't, but the boom/bust left/right vacillation so common in western ersatz democracies evidently is what counts as stable these days.

It's kind of besides the point, though, since it's a comparative exercise.

How long does nuclear fission waste need to be managed, and how does that compare to 'around a hundred years'?

You also make a less than compelling case that we have no choice but to have waste from nuclear fission -- we have plenty of options that don't involve nuclear fission.

Consider, for example, the fact that Australia has no nuclear fission plants generating electricity.

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by Pxtl on Sunday April 23, 2017 @01:53PM (#14179333)
But it is burning coal, which is far worse at this point. That's what I'm getting at - Australia is uniquely well equipped for nuclear power and has not substantial begun moving away from fossil fuels. If solar is cheaper than nuclear, then by all means build that. But if not? Why not move to nuclear energy?
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by Jedd on Sunday April 23, 2017 @07:57PM (#14181105)
Yes, I pointed out that AU has a regrettable fixation with digging up and burning coal.

But just because we have access to relatively cheap Uranium doesn't mean we should be digging it up and processing it.

One of the reasons I rail against the suggestion that AU has a 'stable long term government' (ie. that could be said to be sufficiently grown up to handle fissile waste) is that right now that same government is very publicly committed to fossil fuels, despite the leader of same being on record only a few years ago asserting - loud and wide - that green energy should be our priority, and we should be moving away from fossil fuels. Append usual concerns about the various people involved in getting us to, and then maintaining, this unfortunate situation.

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by astrodust on Sunday April 23, 2017 @05:15AM (#14177300)
> We also don't have a good place to store the waste.

Oh, give me a goddamn break. You've got how much desert that's sparsely inhabited?

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by popey456963 on Saturday April 22, 2017 @05:05PM (#14174790)
To be fair, you need _significantly_ less[0] uranium compared with the amount of coal you mine. For every million mountains destroyed by coal mining, you'd only have to destroy a couple of mountains. Not to mention I don't think uranium is usually mined from mountains but rather pit-mined, makes it far better than the alternatives.

Personally however, still support solar. Especially solar house tiles, they look good, pay for themselves after a few years and can be placed on every house.

[0] https://xkcd.com/1162/

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by hsjhgktfdy on Saturday April 22, 2017 @07:21PM (#14175455)
Not every house has solar resource. If your house is in the middle of the woods it's not going to work unless you clear-cut the surrounding woods and then you're not in the middle of the woods anymore. Same if you are in the shadow of a couple of mid-rises. etc. etc. Even if there is solar resource it may not replace more than a fraction of usage. Roof-top solar is great where the resource exists, but it's a partial solution at best. There's still a need for the utility grid and something needs to fuel that. It could be utility-scale solar, but it's not onsite rooftop solar.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by adrianN on Sunday April 23, 2017 @03:36AM (#14177006)
You realize that most houses are not in the middle of the woods? If I look around here in Berlin, almost all houses would qualify for rooftop solar. There is of course still the storage problem.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by hueving on Saturday April 22, 2017 @06:01PM (#14175071)
You do know that a significant amount of coal is mined without the destruction of mountains, right?
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by kd0amg on Saturday April 22, 2017 @05:19PM (#14174868)
Reminds me of this chart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI99A08Y83E&t=13m45s (if you want to skip to the punch line, it's just after 15:00), but this one is still in log scale.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by BinaryIdiot on Sunday April 23, 2017 @05:57AM (#14177413)
Don't forget uranium can be extracted from seawater! Granted I don't think it's near the efficiency yet of simply digging and extracting from a pit but still it's something to watch out for in the near future.

https://engineering.stanford.edu/news/how-extract-uranium-se...

Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by VMG on Saturday April 22, 2017 @02:13PM (#14173822)
How many mines are needed for the production and maintenance of wind (or solar) of comparable capacity?
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by grigjd3 on Sunday April 23, 2017 @09:30AM (#14178077)
Tons of them. Materials required for solar cells and turbines have to come from somewhere.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by adrianN on Sunday April 23, 2017 @03:33AM (#14176999)
Uranium has a much higher energy density, so you need fewer mines. The raw materials for renewable energy tech don't materialize from the ether either.
Re:The U.S. wind industry now employs more than 100K people by TheOtherHobbes on Sunday April 23, 2017 @04:02AM (#14177078)
But they're vastly easier to source, and then reuse/recycle.

Also, there's that "Not laying waste to huge areas and making them uninhabitable" thing.

Nukes would be fine for a species that was capable of acting intelligently and responsibly over long periods.

Humans are not (yet) that species.