News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by moron4hire on Friday April 21, 2017 @08:12AM (#14164773)
Let's put something into perspective. Linux is 25 years old. If Linux hasn't supplanted Windows on the desktop by now, then there is no indication it ever will.

And don't get me wrong, I think Linux is a fine OS and use it daily (lately more often than Windows). But "replace Windows" is not a static target, and the organizations in charge of promoting Linux as a desktop OS have nothing now or in the works that can compete with the corporate Juggernaut of Microsoft.

Selling software is hard, especially on Linux. We tell people FOSS means free as in freedom, but the vast majority of even people who parrot that line thinks it means free as in beer. As a software vendor, you'd be killing yourself to ignore 90% of the market.

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by jasonkostempski on Friday April 21, 2017 @10:39AM (#14165976)
The desktop/laptop market is becoming less general consumer and more professional, yet MS and Apple are targeting the consumer experience. MS keeps trying to get in on the mobile market and failing hard, leaving their professional desktop/laptop users frustrated in a wasteland of poorly planned mobile features. Apple is doing it with their desktop OS because they've stopped caring about it, they've won the mobile market. Linux is the only option left for OS. Unfortunately, too many professional tools only run on Windows and/or Mac right now, doubly unfortunate is that a lot of them are made by MS or Apple and they're unlikely to port to Linux any time soon. I think a good strategy going forward for desktop software developers would be, not to ignore Windows and Mac, but to include Linux as a target from the beginning, maybe even make it first priority. Then maybe down the road, if a good chunk of the lock-in tools get replaced, a lot less people will be stuck. When less people are stuck, quality goes up all around due to competition. Selling on Linux is definitely hard, but companies will pay if the licensing requires it. I hate proprietary software as much as the next FOSS zealot but just getting people on to Linux is a win, if that means a few closed source/strict license/vague EULA tools become prevalent on Linux, so be it.
Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by Joeri on Friday April 21, 2017 @02:13PM (#14167883)
Microsoft hasn't focused on mobile since the 8.x timeframe. The creator's update of windows 10 has tons of developer-focused improvements, for example in the linux subsystem.

I was gung-ho on linux on the desktop in the late 90's, but there's one fatal flaw in the bazaar volunteer-driven model that prevents it from catching on: it is more fun to write anew than to maintain and improve. The desktop linux ecosystem is stuck in an endless loop of rebuilding what was, instead of advancing.

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by jasonkostempski on Monday April 24, 2017 @11:09AM (#14184867)
By "mobile" I guess I meant the kind of stuff companies get away with on mobile; walled garden, limited control, aggressive updates, etc. If they would just give control back to the power users, there would be no more discussion about it. They could do it easily but they show no signs of going back.

If you're referring specifically to the various DEs on Linux desktop, I agree, there are a ridiculous amount of options, none of them doing "modern" super well. Personally, I'm on Xfce and that is because it doesn't do "modern" on purpose. DEs were feature complete in 1995, everything else has been useless fluff.

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by iamNumber4 on Friday April 21, 2017 @09:20AM (#14165285)
yes let's put it into perspective.

Yes the Linux kernel was developed ~25 years ago. Linux is not an operating system it is a kernel. Gnu/Linux distributions have several desktops, depending on what part of the world you are from, etc...

Linux hasn't hit the desktop market because you can not just go to a store and buy one.

The problem is availability, the Average Consumer does not what to buy something, and then alter or modify the product as soon as they get home.

To most people computers are entertainment devices. They just want it to work. They just want to buy one.

The reason that Microsoft, Apple, and even Google (chrome books, android) have hit the market share is because they realized the formula of be a hardware company first, software second.

Yes Microsoft has a cartel on Hardware, as they got all vendor companies to make hardware for them. It's like MacDonalds being a real estate company and not a burger flipping company. They take their money off the top of the hardware vendors. They have created a ecosystem that is endless cycle of upgrade. The Cost of ownership of a Microsoft ecosystem is quite expensive over the long term. They have developed a system of hooking users with the home/personal lines, that have forced business to purchase their products.

I should also point out that, Android (Linux kernel) has the largest market share at the time of writing this. Personal computers are changing to things that fit into pockets.

The average consumer is not going to want a desktop or a laptop anymore. As that their use case of just being entertainment devices.

If Gnu/Linux wants to compete for smaller the professional,Gamer,power user desktop/laptop markets. There needs to be a Hardware company to champion it, (Like Dell) that will put it front and center at the Wal-marts/best-buy's/Fry's of the world. So that we can just go buy one.

Remember the superior product is a matter of perspective. Which is the superior product? The product which is perfect, barely breaks, and is fixed quickly if it does. Or the product that has flaws, multiple ways to break, crash, etc... only lasts a few years.

It all depends. To the salesman the one that breaks of course, so we can sell more of them. If it does not break I can only sell it once.

So... long rant short; until we can just drive to the store and buy a Linux PC off the shelf and start using it . There will be poor market share, and we'll fighting to FUD at the work place.

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by type0 on Friday April 21, 2017 @09:42AM (#14165484)
> Linux hasn't hit the desktop market because you can not just go to a store and buy one.

Remember the 90s when you could do that, at least the smaller shops used to have some Linux CDs. What happened, why is none seemingly interested in selling it? What i mean, the smaller hw shops that are still around could sell NVMe disks preloaded with Linux distros, they could also sell enclosures so that users would be able to run it via usb 3 as a portable operating system. Let's face it, dual booting is dead, for those with interest in Linux but who can't escape the Windows trap maybe could run it on portable storage.

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by iamNumber4 on Friday April 21, 2017 @10:07AM (#14165722)
I do remember buying the install media back in the day, you used to be able to get RedHat, Suse, and FreeBSD (if you were a Unix purist) too. The problem then was the problem right now, you can't buy a pre-loaded Linux PC at the store.

Imagine if RedHat back in 96-97 could have got HP, Dell, Compaq, etc... to sell a pre-loaded product. How many more people would have been exposed to Linux. Good or bad, exposure is exposure.

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by out_of_protocol on Friday April 21, 2017 @09:42AM (#14165488)
Linux as in Android already won the market. Desktop OSes... are all bad atm imo, for different reasons. Desktop linux is missing many things to be real choice and can't win until it changes. e.g.:

standard application format, working across all the distros - with isolation, permissions and stuff (see android's .apk files, snap, flatpak, appimage etc).

fault-proof system updates. atm it's possible to break something via regular update and it'll cost you dearly. maybe win-style restoration points/backups.

unified desktop experience, not current shitshow where every single app can draw it's very own shaped buttons

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by evand on Friday April 28, 2017 @11:10AM (#14219991)
Agreed. Giving ISVs one format to deliver their apps to all the distributions will be a big help. To the distros as well - you don't lose users to Ubuntu because Spotify is only distributed as a deb.

For those unfamiliar with "snaps", here's a quick primer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLxqdf89hRo

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by moron4hire on Friday April 21, 2017 @10:31AM (#14165901)
Google is actively working on their own kernel for their consumer facing operating systems. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fuchsia So that "win" is going to be relatively short-lived.
Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by Nomentatus on Friday April 21, 2017 @11:38AM (#14166505)
There's more than one possible reason for this move, but I can't help thinking that escaping the GPL 2 with its (hardware and software) patent grab might be the biggest single reason.
Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by walterbell on Friday April 21, 2017 @11:55AM (#14166662)
Did you mean GPL3? If not, would appreciate a link on GPL2 patent issues.
Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by Nomentatus on Saturday April 22, 2017 @05:48PM (#14175010)
GPL2 Did you Google?

Google "gpl 2 patent clause"

First result, for me: Patent clauses in software licences - software patents wiki (en.swpat.org) en.swpat.org/wiki/Patent_clauses_in_software_licences Jump to GNU GPL v2 - (See: GPLv2 and patents). See section 6 and section 7. Patent attorney Dan Ravicher argues that GPLv2 includes an implicit ...

Re:Developer publishes patch to enable Windows 7 and 8.1 upd... by walterbell on Sunday April 23, 2017 @11:54AM (#14178647)
Thanks. Had not seen patent language in GPLv2, but it was implied, https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech7.html

> The GPLv2, despite being silent with respect to patents, actually confers on its licensees more rights to a licensor’s patents than those licenses that purport to address the issue. This is the case because patent law, under the doctrine of implied license, gives to each distributee of a patented article a license from the distributor to practice any patent claims owned or held by the distributor that cover the distributed article. The implied license also extends to any patent claims owned or held by the distributor that cover “reasonably contemplated uses” of the patented article.