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Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @11:35AM (#14139716)
"Normal" countries also contribute very little to global pharma R&D.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by _jal on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @11:52AM (#14139851)
I don't know the parent's goals in trotting that out, but in general, I love how often this line is used as a defense of the "free market" in drugs.

Aside from the military[1], in what other categories of product do those waving that banner support mandatory payments to private entities supporting their preferred agenda[2]?

Never mind that the military is the best comparison to drugs in terms of regulation - the only products less "free-market" in the US than drugs are military weapons. In a way, there's a funny symmetry there.

[1] A huge amount of that money goes directly to private firms, just like pharma payments.

[2] Well, I guess one can opt out of medical care.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by swsieber on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @11:58AM (#14139902)
I'm not even sure you can call it "free market" because of the distortions that patents bring into it...
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by rayiner on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:07PM (#14139973)
Patents distort what would happen in the absence of patents, but so does every other kind of property right. Markets in the absence of patents exhibit free rider effects, which are themselves undermine market efficiency.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by theseatoms on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:17PM (#14140073)
The free rider effects you're referring to are exacerbated by how arduous the FDA approval process is.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:11PM (#14140010)
I'm not defending a free market in drugs. I actually don't believe such a thing can exist. I'm simply observing the price board does what almost all price boards do: maximizing short-term political gains. It's a response to parent pretending a complex discussion has one true answer.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by HarryHirsch on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:51PM (#14140437)
In Europe price controls have been in place since the War, if not earlier, and the pharma industry in Germany, France, Belgium, Switzerland and the UK did extremely well until the 1980s.

Pfizer opened their Sandwich site in 1954 and when they closed it in 2011 it wasn't because of the NHS.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by ksk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @02:09PM (#14141296)
Pharma takes from publicly funded research (globally) and then turns around and milks the public while lining their own pockets. I work tangentially in the pharma world, and much of the complicated biochemistry, assays, fermentation protocols etc have been figured out at universities. The value that Pharma companies' R&D brings in, is primarily in jacking up the downstream product yield so they can make money, and sometimes, lower costs.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by refurb on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @04:05PM (#14142386)
Having worked in the industry, this is widly inaccurate. First off, a majority of drug discovered (~80%) are discovered by private companies.[1]

Of the 252 drugs approved from '97 to '05... 58% from pharmaceutical companies, 18% from biotech companies, 16% from universities, transferred to biotech 8% from universities, transferred to pharma

Second of all, discovering a drug gets you about 1/4 of the way to an approved, marketed drug. Typically the breakdown between research and development costs are 1/3 and 2/3. No academic institutions do the development part, where most of the cost is.

[1]http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/11/04/whe...

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by louithethrid on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @04:23PM (#14142547)
Oh, those discovered drugs. They are discovered like bathsalts are- glue a molecule here and there to a know compound, renew the patent.

I want to know how the R&D looks for compound group discovery. Everything else is just repackaging with a chemistry kit.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by refurb on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:57PM (#14144559)
Since you didn't bother to read the article, let me summarize it for you:

118 of the drugs during this period were considered to have scientific novelty (46%), and of those: 44% were from pharmaceutical companies. 25% were from biotech companies, and 31% were from universities (transferred to either biotech or pharma)

Of the 118 scientifically novel drugs (new MOA, etc), 69% were NOT from academia. That is, academia has zero to do with the discovery all the way up to the approval of the drug.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by ksk on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @02:03AM (#14145796)
>That is, academia has zero to do with the discovery all the way up to the approval of the drug.

Please don't insult our intelligence.The context for this discussion is about greedy companies using existing research for free and contributing nothing back. The linked article doesn't show which scientific research contributed to the product development. Universities are not all primarily engaged in drug discovery.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by refurb on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @11:14PM (#14153631)
The article show where the drug was discovered. And as I mentioned, almost 80% were discovered by a private company.

Now, if you'd like to claim that that discovery was based on science paid for by the gov't, I won't disagree, but continuing that line of thought we could claim that drug companies are greedy because they are taking advantage of organic chemists who did work 200 years ago.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by louithethrid on Saturday April 22, 2017 @02:50AM (#14171415)
The problem is that they have no incentive to actually cure. And near not incentive to provide cheap medication- which the patent system incentives you too, by running out after x Years. (Unless you are a frozzen Princess aka Disney) Lots of diseases are only researched at universitys. They have however a incentive, to sell anything expensive, to a audience desperate (that alone is a free market killer). And they do. I just try to understand how one can defend a held-hostage situation with free market rethoric.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by ksk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @04:39PM (#14142691)
That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. OF COURSE the Pharmas spend money on product development. They can't expect that for free too!! They already benefit a lot from publicly funded R&D, and contribute very little back in terms of pure science R&D. I work in vaccine automation and lemme tell you, the secret sauce to getting high yield ain't leaving the company.. ever.

>No academic institutions do the development part, where most of the cost is.

Because they got for free all of the decades of scientific research.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by refurb on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @09:00PM (#14144580)
Because they got for free all of the decades of scientific research.

Yes, the scientific research that cost maybe 1% of the total cost of bringing the drug to market. Makes sense that the company should share some of the wealth.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by ksk on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @01:57AM (#14145774)
Incorrect. They contribute _zero_ to our understanding of science. Its easier to build a bridge after someone else has already figured out what does and doesn't work. I don't blame them completely for using public domain information since there is no point reinventing the wheel. But after they've built their company on the backs of taxpayers who funded the research, we'd be fine if they just said thank-you and went on their way, instead of turning back and gouging everyone.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by refurb on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @11:17PM (#14153648)
They contribute _zero_ to our understanding of science.

I definitely disagree here. There has been plenty of basic science discovered at private companies. I do agree they are hesitant to share it, but that's doesn't mean it doesn't happen. A great example of the Upjohn dihydroxylation reaction. Discovered at Upjohn Pharmaceuticals, freely disseminated through journal publications and now a key technology in organic synthesis.

Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by corford on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:28PM (#14140190)
The UK contributes quite a bit yet the NHS has price controls.
Re:Nonprofit Working to Block Drug Imports Has Ties to Pharm... by maxerickson on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @11:38AM (#14139743)
How much are US generics contributing to R&D?