News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by geon on Monday April 17, 2017 @03:29AM (#14129679)
> PHP iirc can't even be used as a websocket server

True, if you run it behind a web server like 99.999% of all users.

If you run it as a cli script, you can implement pretty much anything. I saw a ftp server once. Crazy.

Still, even on a normal web server, php can do long polling perfectly fine, which is often enough.

> being able to write program flows without dozens of promises is a breeze

It is a breeze with async/await too.

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by mschuster91 on Monday April 17, 2017 @12:45PM (#14132354)
> If you run it as a cli script, you can implement pretty much anything. I saw a ftp server once. Crazy.

Yeah, I implemented a simple ircd once. Funny days... but I don't know of any library/framework that could help you with the websocket protocol level, and I'm too old for writing my own ;)

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by geon on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:00PM (#14133018)
Websocket is actually not that complicated. A couple of headers to upgrade the request from HTTP to websocket, then framing of each payload.

But you could use something like websocketd, which spawns a process of your chioce for each client and pipes the websocket to stdin and vice versa.

https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd

Each PHP process looks like it takes about 5 MB of ram on my laptop, so probably not the best method for 5000+ concurrent users if you use PHP, but still.

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by cr0sh on Monday April 17, 2017 @02:04PM (#14133042)
> I don't know of any library/framework that could help you with the websocket protocol level

FYI - http://socketo.me/

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by LinuxFreedom on Monday April 17, 2017 @06:43AM (#14130164)
what would be a good hardware spec and server configuration to have 5000 users do long polling with a php backend?
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by geon on Monday April 17, 2017 @09:55AM (#14130858)
If you care about performance and traffic, perhaps php isn't where you should start anyway.
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by LinuxFreedom on Monday April 17, 2017 @01:59PM (#14133008)
Yes, of course there are easy to use and much better programming languages for that - I just really wanted to read some "real-life" recommendations from that guy that mentioned "php" and "long-polling" in the same sentence.

[Maybe it was just a joke and I did not get it... or I did get it but did not identify it as a joke... however... I would like to see some beef...]

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by mschuster91 on Monday April 17, 2017 @12:19PM (#14132080)
Uh. You do realize that Mediawiki, powering nearly all wiki systems including Wikipedia, is written in PHP. Or Facebook, they were able to go with PHP for iirc 500 M users?

PHP is in any case a better choice, performance-wise, than Python or, god forbid, Java.

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by geon on Monday April 17, 2017 @01:44PM (#14132894)
Facebook built their own PHP-to-C++ compiler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP) and later a JIT compiler/VM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_Virtual_Machine), with a custom, typed version of PHP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_(programming_language) ).

All just to make PHP a little faster. I think you are making my case.

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by mschuster91 on Monday April 17, 2017 @05:29PM (#14134577)
HH transpilation was introduced in 2010. Depending on when exactly you look in 2010, FB had between 350-600M active users (https://www.yahoo.com/news/number-active-users-facebook-over...).

Many websites don't ever get to 350M users, so it's safe to say that plain PHP will satisfy your startup for a long time. Also, PHP7 is pretty much on par with HHVM in real-world scenarios: https://kinsta.com/blog/the-definitive-php-7-final-version-h...

Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by SergeAx on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @03:19PM (#14142002)
Check out "experimental JIT branch" of PHP. It boost performance 1.5-2 times compared to current PHP 7.1, and they didn't start optimization yet. It blows HHVM out of the water, and I can't wait to compare performance with Java and .NET.
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by geon on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:32AM (#14136506)
And the vast majority of websites never get 5000 concurrent users either. Your planned load obviously dictates the language as much as anything else.
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by cutler on Monday April 17, 2017 @01:08PM (#14132558)
PHP performs better than Java? Care to offer evidence?
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by mschuster91 on Monday April 17, 2017 @01:25PM (#14132734)
Can't disclose much in public, but our PHP CMS hosting requirements tend to be waaaay cheaper than our Java-based CMSes. Also, deployment of PHP apps is (in my experience) faster and easier.
Re:PHP 7 Virtual Machine by cutler on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @09:16PM (#14144654)
(cheaper hosting || faster deployment) != better performance