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Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ChicagoBoy11 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:09PM (#14108873)
Yet by every account that mattters it doesn't, right? I understand that people who are there can certainly wish that the place and culture were different in some significant way, but the only barometer that should have some weight is the ease or difficulty that Amazon has in attracting and retaining top talent -- and that to the extent that it is harming their ability to deliver results. Which, from the outside, it certainly doesn't seem to be limiting.

The counterargument is that of course the things which makes Amazon's work culture toxic to people are orthogonal to their success and not a cause of it. My former boss was very well aware that she could sometimes be downright mean and nasty to our staff, and I cringed every time she justified it by citing what people thought the same of Steve Jobs: While true, we can't avoid the fundamental problem of causal inference, and there is no saying that had Jeff been actively striving to make a more welcoming culture, or if Steve or my former boss were nice people, that they wouldn't have experienced even greater success.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by Stryder on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:29PM (#14109646)
Slavery lasted for thousands of years, and it's REALLY hard to argue with the "business results" of slavery.

Having "success" be the metric is a very slippery slope.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by devopsproject on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:21PM (#14109016)
> but the only barometer that should have some weight is the ease or difficulty that Amazon has in attracting and retaining top talent

They have terrible retention. One of the worst and in many years the absolute worst.

A few years back workers were passing out from working in 100 degree temps. They were disciplined for performance and instead of installing air conditioning, they lined up ambulances and paramedics to take falling bodies to the hospital. https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-ver...

This is grotesque.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by AndrewKemendo on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:19PM (#14109558)
To be clear their retention is only bad in the fulfillment centers. Those are generally low skill, low pay, seasonal employees meant for short term stints - of which there is a near infinite supply.

For their core engineering, BD etc... teams in Seattle, retention is great.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by krapp on Thursday April 13, 2017 @07:35PM (#14111657)
>Those are generally low skill, low pay, seasonal employees meant for short term stints - of which there is a near infinite supply.

Low skill, yes, low pay, God yes, seasonal - not usually. At least where I am, they aggressively hire for full time positions, and clearly intend for non-temporary employees to consider it as a career. Retention is poor because of the environment and the workload.

And theft. Apparently there's a lot of theft. But that's bound to happen when you surround people with expensive merchandise, work them like dogs and refuse to pay them a decent wage.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by devopsproject on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:57PM (#14109910)
If you are going to make those claims, please provide a source.

This is pretty good rant from the technical\engineering side: https://plus.google.com/+RipRowan/posts/eVeouesvaVX

There is no need to fetishize amazon and if amazon is your model I feel sorry for your employees.

Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by ronlaflange on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:59PM (#14111226)
Not sure how relevant this rant is; the last time Steve Yegge worked at Amazon was in mid-2005. For reference, this was even before AWS launched publicly.
Re:Jeff Bezos’ Annual Letter by devopsproject on Thursday April 13, 2017 @06:22PM (#14111338)